Why are people so quick to call for this website to be shut down but don't have the same energy for mental health support?

GoodPersonEffed

GoodPersonEffed

Brevity is my middle name, but my name was TL
Joined
Jan 11, 2020
Messages
6,587
Why are people so quick to call for this website to be shut down but don't have the same energy for mental health support?

I think in part because it feels more powerful to pick up a torch and a pitchfork than to pick up and empower another person, which takes time and patience, and may not end up with the desired outcome or reward fix.

It feels more powerful to be up on a high horse than get down in the trenches with someone, to sit with them and listen, to not fix them but really listen, and to trust them to know themselves, to know what they're experiencing, to not say, "No, that's not what you're experiencing, this is what you're experiencing and this is what you need to do."

Blaming and vilifying brings a rush of hormones and chemicals; accepting can feel disempowering if one doesn't have a strong enough ego to deal with it and not try to take control.

I was thinking today about relationships I used to have where we bonded by sitting around and criticizing and condemning people, sitting in judgment and not doing shit, in contrast to the rare relationships I had where we focused on supporting each other in accountability and personal growth, which was empowering for the long-term, acknowledged the need for hard work, and supported that work.

It's much easier to offload pain and vulnerability by blaming than to self-focus or really focus on what another is going through and to actively care even if one can't fix it, which means facing and being with pain, which is vulnerable and requires courage. It means temporarily or intermittently shouldering part of the load for another without taking ownership of their load; not many people feel empowered by connecting like that, nor do they realize that offloading isn't empowering, no matter how powerful it feels.
 
Gnip

Gnip

Bill the Cat
Joined
Oct 10, 2020
Messages
359
They don't have first hand experience with the mental health care system, so they don't understand the huge underlying problems. In their minds, they believe that just stopping people from committing suicide is enough to fix the problem
If any of those cocksuckers are actually hiring employers who want to put their money where my dick should be, let them actually place these people they falsely claim to care for on their own payrolls.
Petitions to shut down the site and neglect the fact that a lot of us are still alive because of this community. Like many others I came here to learn how to die, but ended up staying because the site became a coping tool.
But you're all sweetness, kindness, gentleness love and light, dear RoseyBird, while I am more Alfred Hitchcock's The Birds, ready to attack, swarm our opponents and peck their stupid eyeballs out.

 
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B

bornfree

Veteran
Joined
May 10, 2020
Messages
111
Why are people so quick to call for this website to be shut down but don't have the same energy for mental health support?

I think in part because it feels more powerful to pick up a torch and a pitchfork than to pick up and empower another person, which takes time and patience, and may not end up with the desired outcome or reward fix.

It feels more powerful to be up on a high horse than get down in the trenches with someone, to sit with them and listen, to not fix them but really listen, and to trust them to know themselves, to know what they're experiencing, to not say, "No, that's not what you're experiencing, this is what you're experiencing and this is what you need to do."

Blaming and vilifying brings a rush of hormones and chemicals; accepting can feel disempowering if one doesn't have a strong enough ego to deal with it and not try to take control.

I was thinking today about relationships I used to have where we bonded by sitting around and criticizing and condemning people, sitting in judgment and not doing shit, in contrast to the rare relationships I had where we focused on supporting each other in accountability and personal growth, which was empowering for the long-term, acknowledged the need for hard work, and supported that work.

It's much easier to offload pain and vulnerability by blaming than to self-focus or really focus on what another is going through and to actively care even if one can't fix it, which means facing and being with pain, which is vulnerable and requires courage. It means temporarily or intermittently shouldering part of the load for another without taking ownership of their load; not many people feel empowered by connecting like that, nor do they realize that offloading isn't empowering, no matter how powerful it feels.
They're not seeking to empower or care about what's important to a suicidal individual. They ignore how awful it is to feel suicidal. If they have genuine empathy and understanding they they'd understand why suicide and assisted suicide is such an important freedom (not a perfect freedom but still a freedom to be protected by the right to use one's death).

They're against suicide until they face suicidal thoughts and feelings. They're against assisted suicide until they find out it's the only thing that can save them and protect them and keep them safe from personal experience.
 
L0ne1ygh0st

L0ne1ygh0st

Mentally Scarred
Joined
Oct 1, 2019
Messages
419
Because killing yourself is a burden on them but so is funding mental health services. Were meant to be considerate and suffer in silence so not to hurt their feelings.
 
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B

bornfree

Veteran
Joined
May 10, 2020
Messages
111
Because killing yourself is a burden on them but so is funding mental health services. Were meant to be considerate and suffer in silence so not to hurt their feelings.
they expect suicidal individuals to get used to feeling suicidal. This is the problem of having no competency to care so they criminalise assisted because they're so cruel as to expect a suicidal individual to get used to feeling suicidal. There's no care in this.
 
B

blueflame

Member
Joined
Nov 17, 2020
Messages
18
Everything I say is just my honest and humble opinion....

I think there is a major problem that needs to be fixed at the root....

We know better than anyone, as we have spent time observing and being on both the giving and receiving end of the flaws of humanity, that right now, humans are ultimately unreliable and basically useless when trying to achieve a goal that is beyond each individual's own belief......

Currently, humans all go for what will serve them individually (us included). So because of that, our wishes will be shut down as soon as they leave our lips, even if those wishes are sensible, explained and justified. They are shut down because the label "personal wish I have for myself however it needs a lot of change in the current circumstances to achieve it" that comes with the wish, will cause a disturbance or conflict in the human individual on the receiving end of the information. It's like asking a poor parent to get you a rocketship for christmas......in their minds and maybe their circumstances, they just cannot afford to give that to us. Or maybe they could give it to us but they'd rather invest their ressources in what they think is right, completely disregarding their responsibility as a party responsible for our wellbeing.

It's the same thing with wishes that are "too expensive" for them psychologically, we will be denied what we need or they will try offering us what they can afford or want to give.... And it's frustrating because we want that rocketship so badly and we end up hurt
because we want it but they just won't give it to us....

However, there is one thing we can do and that is to at least ask for and express our wishes along with all reasons and justifications to the ones who we know have the responsibility to listen to, help to obtain or give us what we wish for....

I'm thinking parents, the healthcare system but also the government. Those three bodies in the organization called society are the ones responsible for the wellbeing of individuals. Parents are and should only be responsible for their children's wellbeing, but the government and healthcare system are and should be responsible for each individual's wellbeing, it's the role they've accepted and signed up for. And if the wellbeing of each individual isn't part of their contracts and obligations then why have a government system to being with? What are the benefits of having a government if it's obligations and goals aren't the wellbeing of all. Okay that's a topic for another day....

I think what needs to happen is making those three bodies go back to the roots and make them see and remind them of their fundamental roles and obligations in life. Nowadays they get so caught up on one aspect that they all completely forget the fundamental "why, what for" which is and should always be, first and foremost, the wellbeing of each individual. That is whst they signed up for when they decided to become parents, healthcare workers or government members.

So, in conclusion, we can and should at least express what we want, what is important for our wellbeing.

Therefore, I express that we shouldn't and we mustn't let those three bodies become neglectful and complacent about the importance of our wellbeing. The words that should keep ringing loud and clear in this world are "YOUR ETERNAL RESPONSIBILITY IS OUR ETERNAL WELLBEING, IF YOU AREN'T CAPABLE OF FULFILLING IT, YOU HAVE THE OBLIGATION TO NOT PUT YOURSELF IN ONE OR MORE OF THESE POSITIONS: PARENT, HEALTHCARE WORKER OR GOVERNMENT MEMBER. YOU WILL BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE IF FOR ANY REASON YOU FAIL TO FULFILL YOUR RESPONSIBILITY AS ONE OF THOSE THREE BODIES. YOU WILL ALSO BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE AS AN INDIVIDUAL WHO, FOR ANY REASON, FAILED TO FULFILL THEIR RESPONSIBILITY TO NOT PUT THEMSELVES IN ONE OR MORE OF THE ABOVE POSITIONS.. WE HAVE NO MERCY AND ZERO TOLERANCE FOR FLAWS AND INCAPABABILITIES. THEREFORE, IF INCAPABLE TO FULFILL SAID RESPONSIBILITIES, STAY AWAY FROM THE ABOVE POSITIONS OR ELSE YOU WILL FACE INEVITABLE CONSEQUENCES FOR FAILING."

We should let those words ring loud and clear whenever possible and I'm so glad to be able to share them here aswell.

I feel lucky my birth-givers were in my life long enough to hear a piece of my mind and ultimately the truth that should be, not just for me but in general. I also try to express this truth whenever I can especially to those who may have a certain level of impact and could spread it louder for me (if they do) like mental heathcare workers, lawyers etc....

I firmly stand by this truth as being complacent only results in suffering and the spread of suffering.

So, on a final note, since the damage has already been done and the current three bodies that are supposed to support our society are flawed or even straight up rotten, we as individuals have a handful of possible choices to take care of our own wellbeing (since now we know and we've come to realize the ugly truth that the current three bodies just can't and won't do it for us):

- Off ourselves out of this world.
- Speak our minds then off ourselves.
- Speak our minds, try to physically bring changes in the current three bodies then off ourselves.
- Speak our minds, try to physically bring changes in the current three bodies then wait for changes.
- Patiently hang on to the hope and possibility that the current three bodies might change..... soon..... maybe.... hopefully...... one day......
- Off ourselves because weaintgottimeforthat.

Ultimately, it's all personnal but I think it's important to make self-wellbeing one's root/core motivation whenever making a decision. And also to choose heart/soul over body.

As for me, I choose
- Speak my mind then off myself.


Lol, I'm the type to take minimal actions so I only do what I deem truly important, beneficial and useful for me.

So I only invest when I like the idea, it doesn't generate too many losses if failed but the rewards are juicy if successful. Lol.

Anyway, hi, I'm a new member (though I've been lurking for a while ehehe)

:happy:
 
W

whywere

Arcanist
Joined
Jun 26, 2020
Messages
533
Everything I say is just my honest and humble opinion....

I think there is a major problem that needs to be fixed at the root....

We know better than anyone, as we have spent time observing and being on both the giving and receiving end of the flaws of humanity, that right now, humans are ultimately unreliable and basically useless when trying to achieve a goal that is beyond each individual's own belief......

Currently, humans all go for what will serve them individually (us included). So because of that, our wishes will be shut down as soon as they leave our lips, even if those wishes are sensible, explained and justified. They are shut down because the label "personal wish I have for myself however it needs a lot of change in the current circumstances to achieve it" that comes with the wish, will cause a disturbance or conflict in the human individual on the receiving end of the information. It's like asking a poor parent to get you a rocketship for christmas......in their minds and maybe their circumstances, they just cannot afford to give that to us. Or maybe they could give it to us but they'd rather invest their ressources in what they think is right, completely disregarding their responsibility as a party responsible for our wellbeing.

It's the same thing with wishes that are "too expensive" for them psychologically, we will be denied what we need or they will try offering us what they can afford or want to give.... And it's frustrating because we want that rocketship so badly and we end up hurt
because we want it but they just won't give it to us....

However, there is one thing we can do and that is to at least ask for and express our wishes along with all reasons and justifications to the ones who we know have the responsibility to listen to, help to obtain or give us what we wish for....

I'm thinking parents, the healthcare system but also the government. Those three bodies in the organization called society are the ones responsible for the wellbeing of individuals. Parents are and should only be responsible for their children's wellbeing, but the government and healthcare system are and should be responsible for each individual's wellbeing, it's the role they've accepted and signed up for. And if the wellbeing of each individual isn't part of their contracts and obligations then why have a government system to being with? What are the benefits of having a government if it's obligations and goals aren't the wellbeing of all. Okay that's a topic for another day....

I think what needs to happen is making those three bodies go back to the roots and make them see and remind them of their fundamental roles and obligations in life. Nowadays they get so caught up on one aspect that they all completely forget the fundamental "why, what for" which is and should always be, first and foremost, the wellbeing of each individual. That is whst they signed up for when they decided to become parents, healthcare workers or government members.

So, in conclusion, we can and should at least express what we want, what is important for our wellbeing.

Therefore, I express that we shouldn't and we mustn't let those three bodies become neglectful and complacent about the importance of our wellbeing. The words that should keep ringing loud and clear in this world are "YOUR ETERNAL RESPONSIBILITY IS OUR ETERNAL WELLBEING, IF YOU AREN'T CAPABLE OF FULFILLING IT, YOU HAVE THE OBLIGATION TO NOT PUT YOURSELF IN ONE OR MORE OF THESE POSITIONS: PARENT, HEALTHCARE WORKER OR GOVERNMENT MEMBER. YOU WILL BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE IF FOR ANY REASON YOU FAIL TO FULFILL YOUR RESPONSIBILITY AS ONE OF THOSE THREE BODIES. YOU WILL ALSO BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE AS AN INDIVIDUAL WHO, FOR ANY REASON, FAILED TO FULFILL THEIR RESPONSIBILITY TO NOT PUT THEMSELVES IN ONE OR MORE OF THE ABOVE POSITIONS.. WE HAVE NO MERCY AND ZERO TOLERANCE FOR FLAWS AND INCAPABABILITIES. THEREFORE, IF INCAPABLE TO FULFILL SAID RESPONSIBILITIES, STAY AWAY FROM THE ABOVE POSITIONS OR ELSE YOU WILL FACE INEVITABLE CONSEQUENCES FOR FAILING."

We should let those words ring loud and clear whenever possible and I'm so glad to be able to share them here aswell.

I feel lucky my birth-givers were in my life long enough to hear a piece of my mind and ultimately the truth that should be, not just for me but in general. I also try to express this truth whenever I can especially to those who may have a certain level of impact and could spread it louder for me (if they do) like mental heathcare workers, lawyers etc....

I firmly stand by this truth as being complacent only results in suffering and the spread of suffering.

So, on a final note, since the damage has already been done and the current three bodies that are supposed to support our society are flawed or even straight up rotten, we as individuals have a handful of possible choices to take care of our own wellbeing (since now we know and we've come to realize the ugly truth that the current three bodies just can't and won't do it for us):

- Off ourselves out of this world.
- Speak our minds then off ourselves.
- Speak our minds, try to physically bring changes in the current three bodies then off ourselves.
- Speak our minds, try to physically bring changes in the current three bodies then wait for changes.
- Patiently hang on to the hope and possibility that the current three bodies might change..... soon..... maybe.... hopefully...... one day......
- Off ourselves because weaintgottimeforthat.

Ultimately, it's all personnal but I think it's important to make self-wellbeing one's root/core motivation whenever making a decision. And also to choose heart/soul over body.

As for me, I choose
- Speak my mind then off myself.


Lol, I'm the type to take minimal actions so I only do what I deem truly important, beneficial and useful for me.

So I only invest when I like the idea, it doesn't generate too many losses if failed but the rewards are juicy if successful. Lol.

Anyway, hi, I'm a new member (though I've been lurking for a while ehehe)

:happy:
WELCOME to Sanctioned Suicide!!!! It is so great to have you as a new global family member. I hope that you find, like I have, all the love, caring, empathy, kindness and support that our family has to offer. It makes me so happy to have you here with us. Again, WELCOME!!!! Walter :heart::hug:
 
B

blueflame

Member
Joined
Nov 17, 2020
Messages
18
WELCOME to Sanctioned Suicide!!!! It is so great to have you as a new global family member. I hope that you find, like I have, all the love, caring, empathy, kindness and support that our family has to offer. It makes me so happy to have you here with us. Again, WELCOME!!!! Walter :heart::hug:
Thank you thank you!
 
C

CivilizationV

Member
Joined
May 21, 2020
Messages
16
Well, I agree with most that was posted here, but the argument that is put forward by one very vocal and active user (fixthe26) against it is that the website allows kids/minors to get unquestionable help towards ctb, and that's something I would agree as being questionable to say the least. What I understand is that techwise related, there's not much one could do to prevent minors accesing the site without requiring public identification for everybody, which carrys other obvious underlying issues that would arise from revealing such information.
It's not my intention to offend, or to imply it's just age alone a deciding factor...
 
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shay23

shay23

Veteran
Joined
Nov 2, 2020
Messages
168
Well, I agree with most that was posted here, but the argument that is put forward by one very vocal and active user (fixthe26) against it is that the website allows kids/minors to get unquestionable help towards ctb, and that's something I would agree as being questionable to say the least. What I understand is that techwise related, there's not much one could do to prevent minors accesing the site without requiring public identification for everybody, which carrys other obvious underlying issues that would arise from revealing such information.
Fully agree and understand that side of the argument but surely the issue is that minors are actively searching for suicide forums and researching suicide etc? They should get to the root cause rather than blame the site. How are they supporting and speaking out for minors who are suffering with suicidal thoughts?
 
Sinkinshyp

Sinkinshyp

Enlightened
Joined
Sep 7, 2020
Messages
803
Well, I agree with most that was posted here, but the argument that is put forward by one very vocal and active user (fixthe26) against it is that the website allows kids/minors to get unquestionable help towards ctb, and that's something I would agree as being questionable to say the least. What I understand is that techwise related, there's not much one could do to prevent minors accesing the site without requiring public identification for everybody, which carrys other obvious underlying issues that would arise from revealing such information.
I wouldn't mind giving my ID. I have had to provide proof I'm over 18 for vape supplies before. But.. a majority would not be so willing to provide their ID. In the wrong hands your ID can be used for so many negative purposes as well. I'm a mom before anything in this world- it's my identity. I do feel some protection should be taken to make sure people under 18 are not able to view certain things. I recently saw something, might have been a youtube (all I watch is youtube) commercial that 50% of kids aged 11-17 have thought about suicide. In my younger years I was the odd one because I was self harming and suicidal. There is major issues in society now that 50% aged 11-17 have considered it. Having raised 2 sons I know kids are impulsive. They do not think things through. Even at 18 my kids did some really stupid things- but it was part of learning and growing up. It is worrisome that a 15 yr old can view certain content easily. But.. if ID were needed they could steal their parents ID anyway to get in.

I will admit I haven't read through much of the thread. I wish all sides could come together to help CHANGE the way mental health is done. Mental health is lacking in many countries not just 1. Instead of everyone attacking eachother- come together to make changes. There are real issues in this world that so many people especially under 25 want to ctb. I saw some documentaries on youtube about mental health and how it's changed through the years. Things that have been done to depressed people in the name of " mental health" is truly heart breaking. One of the documentaries mentioned they call it " practicing" medicine or mental health practitioner because they are all practicing- no one has mastered it. Lobotomies, drowning, all in the name of psychiatry.

I'll share some of my story about mental health. If it wasn't for my younger son I would have been gone 3 years ago when my older son died. I tried to find help for my mental state but was unable to find ANYONE who would take me. My primary doctor has tried his best to help me. I cannot change my insurance because it's the only one who will cover my blood thinner shots which out of pocket would cost me about $2500 a month. I don't even make that much. Also my specialists take my insurance and not the other choices I have. I have a boat load of health issues. My hands are tied.
I am insured with a popular insurer and no mental health professional around me accepts my insurance. I cannot participate in any social services or sliding scale fee places- because I am insured. Due to my suicidal feelings & being very open to express it since my son died, a woman who runs an psychic group in facebook reported me to the police about 2 yrs ago. I admitted to them I want to die- but had no immediate plan. Adult protective services got involved. They offered to find me therapy. I said perfect because I NEED help and I can't find anyone. The worker who was assigned to me was almost in tears. She said I am so so sorry but we are not able to find anything for you- you are right no mental health will take your insurance and due to being insured you cannot participate in the other programs. It's a very for profit business it's sad you are not able to get help. She closed my case because they were not able to get me the help I needed. About 6 months later I took 50 pills- spent a day and a half-2 days I dont remember in the emergency room. They finally sent me off to psych hospital. About 12 hours or so after arriving at the psych hospital I see the psychiatrist with my social worker. The social worker says what exactly did you do? I admitted to taking these pills. She asked why? I said because I do not want to live. I want to die and go to my son. Than she said and we do not accept your insurance and you have no ability to pay for your stay? I said correct. The psychiatrist than says you are being discharged. Now this was the local social services psych hospital. Not a privatized one. So a social services hospital- that will provide services to someone who is uninsured (because the state will pay for their stay due to no insurance) - will not provide their services to me because I have insurance that wont pay them (because I am insured the state WONT pay) . I flat out admitted I took pills to die- I do not want to live anymore and they said go home because your insurance wont pay us. Thats the mental health system. My mom moved in with me 2 months after my son died. When I took the pills she expected me gone for at least a week. When I showed up home so fast she could not believe it. So in september when I bought my SN and told my mother my plan to go October 13th she said I cant even call to have you admitted because they just send you home. She tried to have me admitted when she first moved in and I was home the next day. She said I can't stop you- no one will give you help - I can't get you admitted what can I do? I'm 49 and if I did not have my younger son believe me I would have left this misreble existence I am forced to wake up to 3 yrs ago when my older son died. Imagine someone 14,15,18,19,20 feeling suicidal- acting by taking pills like I did and being sent home like I was with no help, no referrals, no where to get mental health help they desperately needed. Thats what we need to fight to change. Thats what people should be angry about. Not to mention how people are not being treated with dignity and respect if they do have a mental health provider.

Society & mental health both need to change. It's getting worse.
Fully agree and understand that side of the argument but surely the issue is that minors are actively searching for suicide forums and researching suicide etc? They should get to the root cause rather than blame the site. How are they supporting and speaking out for minors who are suffering with suicidal thoughts?
Like I mentioned I am 49. My first suicide attempt was 16 or 17. I was the odd one. I was the only one around who self harmed. In my day cutting wasn't a thing. I've had to hide my scars for years. Now cutting is a known thing and I just admit I was a very mixed up young lady. Anyway, having been the only one suicidal thoughts, actions self harming wasn't common 30+ years ago when I was doing it. Now it's so common it's scary. Society needs to wake up and make changes.

I will say, having raised 2 sons- when my kids were under 18 I would check their computers and cell phones. My younger son is a nerd scored out top 17% nationwide for intelligence at 10. very smart young man. He never used his cell phone unless to call me to bring him home food. I had to dig through his computer. I spoke to people he had on his steam & discord. Yup. I was that mom- you are MY child you are under 18. I provide internet, a computer a phone I will go through it. My older son well.. he got into girls at 15. I got the shock of my life finding his pictures he had sent to girls. Both my boys knew- mom will check your computer and your phone randomly and will talk to the people you talk to-your phone records, your discord, your steam etc.. Parents NEED and MUST monitor what their children are doing. My younger son at 15,16,17,18 I had his computer in the same room as mine-why? because guess what son, I provide you internet and a computer and I want to know what you are doing on there. If he was in discord I was that mom who took the headset and said hey whose in here how old are you? what are you talking to my son about?
my mind is all over today- having one of those deep dark days. Parents allowing phones and computers to babysit their kids is a HUGE problem. Parents not checking what their kids are doing because well theyre 14 15 16 17 what bad could they be up to? guess what? there are predators out there not to mention material children should not see. A parent needs to take responsibility to check on what their kids are doing. I was over protective. My older son died at 25. He had a job paid his own cell bill. He respected me enough if I said hey, give me your phone so I can check it- he would probably argue a bit but he would give me that phone. He would warn me ughh ma well I sent pictures and I have these pictures.. so check all you want just be prepared. Point is parents must monitor their kids.
 
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B

bornfree

Veteran
Joined
May 10, 2020
Messages
111
I wouldn't mind giving my ID. I have had to provide proof I'm over 18 for vape supplies before. But.. a majority would not be so willing to provide their ID. In the wrong hands your ID can be used for so many negative purposes as well. I'm a mom before anything in this world- it's my identity. I do feel some protection should be taken to make sure people under 18 are not able to view certain things. I recently saw something, might have been a youtube (all I watch is youtube) commercial that 50% of kids aged 11-17 have thought about suicide. In my younger years I was the odd one because I was self harming and suicidal. There is major issues in society now that 50% aged 11-17 have considered it. Having raised 2 sons I know kids are impulsive. They do not think things through. Even at 18 my kids did some really stupid things- but it was part of learning and growing up. It is worrisome that a 15 yr old can view certain content easily. But.. if ID were needed they could steal their parents ID anyway to get in.

I will admit I haven't read through much of the thread. I wish all sides could come together to help CHANGE the way mental health is done. Mental health is lacking in many countries not just 1. Instead of everyone attacking eachother- come together to make changes. There are real issues in this world that so many people especially under 25 want to ctb. I saw some documentaries on youtube about mental health and how it's changed through the years. Things that have been done to depressed people in the name of " mental health" is truly heart breaking. One of the documentaries mentioned they call it " practicing" medicine or mental health practitioner because they are all practicing- no one has mastered it. Lobotomies, drowning, all in the name of psychiatry.

I'll share some of my story about mental health. If it wasn't for my younger son I would have been gone 3 years ago when my older son died. I tried to find help for my mental state but was unable to find ANYONE who would take me. My primary doctor has tried his best to help me. I cannot change my insurance because it's the only one who will cover my blood thinner shots which out of pocket would cost me about $2500 a month. I don't even make that much. Also my specialists take my insurance and not the other choices I have. I have a boat load of health issues. My hands are tied.
I am insured with a popular insurer and no mental health professional around me accepts my insurance. I cannot participate in any social services or sliding scale fee places- because I am insured. Due to my suicidal feelings & being very open to express it since my son died, a woman who runs an psychic group in facebook reported me to the police about 2 yrs ago. I admitted to them I want to die- but had no immediate plan. Adult protective services got involved. They offered to find me therapy. I said perfect because I NEED help and I can't find anyone. The worker who was assigned to me was almost in tears. She said I am so so sorry but we are not able to find anything for you- you are right no mental health will take your insurance and due to being insured you cannot participate in the other programs. It's a very for profit business it's sad you are not able to get help. She closed my case because they were not able to get me the help I needed. About 6 months later I took 50 pills- spent a day and a half-2 days I dont remember in the emergency room. They finally sent me off to psych hospital. About 12 hours or so after arriving at the psych hospital I see the psychiatrist with my social worker. The social worker says what exactly did you do? I admitted to taking these pills. She asked why? I said because I do not want to live. I want to die and go to my son. Than she said and we do not accept your insurance and you have no ability to pay for your stay? I said correct. The psychiatrist than says you are being discharged. Now this was the local social services psych hospital. Not a privatized one. So a social services hospital- that will provide services to someone who is uninsured (because the state will pay for their stay due to no insurance) - will not provide their services to me because I have insurance that wont pay them (because I am insured the state WONT pay) . I flat out admitted I took pills to die- I do not want to live anymore and they said go home because your insurance wont pay us. Thats the mental health system. My mom moved in with me 2 months after my son died. When I took the pills she expected me gone for at least a week. When I showed up home so fast she could not believe it. So in september when I bought my SN and told my mother my plan to go October 13th she said I cant even call to have you admitted because they just send you home. She tried to have me admitted when she first moved in and I was home the next day. She said I can't stop you- no one will give you help - I can't get you admitted what can I do? I'm 49 and if I did not have my younger son believe me I would have left this misreble existence I am forced to wake up to 3 yrs ago when my older son died. Imagine someone 14,15,18,19,20 feeling suicidal- acting by taking pills like I did and being sent home like I was with no help, no referrals, no where to get mental health help they desperately needed. Thats what we need to fight to change. Thats what people should be angry about. Not to mention how people are not being treated with dignity and respect if they do have a mental health provider.

Society & mental health both need to change. It's getting worse.


Like I mentioned I am 49. My first suicide attempt was 16 or 17. I was the odd one. I was the only one around who self harmed. In my day cutting wasn't a thing. I've had to hide my scars for years. Now cutting is a known thing and I just admit I was a very mixed up young lady. Anyway, having been the only one suicidal thoughts, actions self harming wasn't common 30+ years ago when I was doing it. Now it's so common it's scary. Society needs to wake up and make changes.

I will say, having raised 2 sons- when my kids were under 18 I would check their computers and cell phones. My younger son is a nerd scored out top 17% nationwide for intelligence at 10. very smart young man. He never used his cell phone unless to call me to bring him home food. I had to dig through his computer. I spoke to people he had on his steam & discord. Yup. I was that mom- you are MY child you are under 18. I provide internet, a computer a phone I will go through it. My older son well.. he got into girls at 15. I got the shock of my life finding his pictures he had sent to girls. Both my boys knew- mom will check your computer and your phone randomly and will talk to the people you talk to-your phone records, your discord, your steam etc.. Parents NEED and MUST monitor what their children are doing. My younger son at 15,16,17,18 I had his computer in the same room as mine-why? because guess what son, I provide you internet and a computer and I want to know what you are doing on there. If he was in discord I was that mom who took the headset and said hey whose in here how old are you? what are you talking to my son about?
my mind is all over today- having one of those deep dark days. Parents allowing phones and computers to babysit their kids is a HUGE problem. Parents not checking what their kids are doing because well theyre 14 15 16 17 what bad could they be up to? guess what? there are predators out there not to mention material children should not see. A parent needs to take responsibility to check on what their kids are doing. I was over protective. My older son died at 25. He had a job paid his own cell bill. He respected me enough if I said hey, give me your phone so I can check it- he would probably argue a bit but he would give me that phone. He would warn me ughh ma well I sent pictures and I have these pictures.. so check all you want just be prepared. Point is parents must monitor their kids.
i am am lost for words. What you are going through is horrific. I don't understand insurance based care but if they believe in the biological cause of misery then they should pay to support you and if not the government should. I doubt you are alone in the awful mistreatment you get. I completely respect your point that support is needed and underfunded however this is an issue of those who run the systems (insurance, social care etc) are unaffected by how suicidal individuals feel. This is in my opinion the primary thing that has to change then everything else changes. Be it the person on the phone you talk to at the insurance company and their boss and their boss or your government or others you are in a horrific situation because those in power are unaffected by how suicidal individuals feel.

This problem is because for centuries the medical profession have said that a brain defect - a mental illness - is responsible for suicidal thoughts and feelings. This is what is the concept of mental health and illness and why doctors rule over suicidal individuals. The idea is that a biological brain defect cause suicidal thoughts and feelings destroyed the creation of empathy.

Oh they will tell you they do care about how you feel and they are affected by how suicidal individuals feel but the proof of my experiences are they have only barbaric cruelty for suicidal individuals. Reading your experiences makes me believe you have the same proof. They have systems and rules and policies and leadership based on apathy not empathy for suicidal individuals. The rule of the heart is for things to never get worse than becoming suicidal but this rule doesn't exist because the human heart doesn't exist and the lack of a heart led to the invention of the lie of mental illness and nothing good has come from this. Doctors rule over mental suffering and diversity but they have failed to care about every suicidal individual because their belief in mental illness gives them no basis for empathy.

i have too many examples of when the monsters who call themselves the human race make my suicidal thoughts and feelings unavoidable instead of avoidable - they have no heart so they have no empathy so they have no rules of the heart to protect suicidal individuals from even further and worse suicidal thoughts and feelings. Reading your experiences i think you have had suicidal feelings and thoughts they could have made avoidable if there was empathy that exists in the systems and leadership.

i am being simplistic and reductive to boil down the seed of change to be having the most basic empathy for suicidal individuals but i see the truth so clearly now i recognise just how few have ever cared about me. It is the curse of being something to them not someone like them. They don't have the most basic empathy to protect something like me and instead they do horrific barbaric cruelty to me when i am suicidal. Then tell me it's only to give me a good death that's the one thing they can't bear to do to me because they care about me. I am a thing to them so they have no empathy to care about me and instead their care is full of so much evil and cruelty that they deny me the protection of assisted suicide. There's no care in any6 of this because they don't have the empathy to make a difference to all the evils and cruelties they so easily accept to be done to suicidal individuals.

(I am only a parent to a cat - the only being i can trust. I believe censorship should be avoided. I'd rather children get taught about and get prepared for feeling suicidal. I do have issues with access to assisted suicide for children - i do not have moral certainty on this issue. I see there is a clear and present fight for liberation for suicidal individuals and other victims of psychiatry. It is meant to be the purpose of democracy to fight fore greater freedoms and i believe education for empowerment is the primary recourse for this objective. I don't know what the next fight for liberation will be but i assume there will be a fight for the liberation of children in the future. At the moment children are deprived of rights and liberty. But take the right to vote. A child can make an informed decision to vote but are denied the right to vote whereas an adult can vote without informing themselves and can base their choice on absolutely any criteria. In addition suicidal thoughts and feelings are beyond awful at any age but they are so much worse when suicidality is met by ownership not empathy.)
Everything I say is just my honest and humble opinion....

I think there is a major problem that needs to be fixed at the root....

We know better than anyone, as we have spent time observing and being on both the giving and receiving end of the flaws of humanity, that right now, humans are ultimately unreliable and basically useless when trying to achieve a goal that is beyond each individual's own belief......

Currently, humans all go for what will serve them individually (us included). So because of that, our wishes will be shut down as soon as they leave our lips, even if those wishes are sensible, explained and justified. They are shut down because the label "personal wish I have for myself however it needs a lot of change in the current circumstances to achieve it" that comes with the wish, will cause a disturbance or conflict in the human individual on the receiving end of the information. It's like asking a poor parent to get you a rocketship for christmas......in their minds and maybe their circumstances, they just cannot afford to give that to us. Or maybe they could give it to us but they'd rather invest their ressources in what they think is right, completely disregarding their responsibility as a party responsible for our wellbeing.

It's the same thing with wishes that are "too expensive" for them psychologically, we will be denied what we need or they will try offering us what they can afford or want to give.... And it's frustrating because we want that rocketship so badly and we end up hurt
because we want it but they just won't give it to us....

However, there is one thing we can do and that is to at least ask for and express our wishes along with all reasons and justifications to the ones who we know have the responsibility to listen to, help to obtain or give us what we wish for....

I'm thinking parents, the healthcare system but also the government. Those three bodies in the organization called society are the ones responsible for the wellbeing of individuals. Parents are and should only be responsible for their children's wellbeing, but the government and healthcare system are and should be responsible for each individual's wellbeing, it's the role they've accepted and signed up for. And if the wellbeing of each individual isn't part of their contracts and obligations then why have a government system to being with? What are the benefits of having a government if it's obligations and goals aren't the wellbeing of all. Okay that's a topic for another day....

I think what needs to happen is making those three bodies go back to the roots and make them see and remind them of their fundamental roles and obligations in life. Nowadays they get so caught up on one aspect that they all completely forget the fundamental "why, what for" which is and should always be, first and foremost, the wellbeing of each individual. That is whst they signed up for when they decided to become parents, healthcare workers or government members.

So, in conclusion, we can and should at least express what we want, what is important for our wellbeing.

Therefore, I express that we shouldn't and we mustn't let those three bodies become neglectful and complacent about the importance of our wellbeing. The words that should keep ringing loud and clear in this world are "YOUR ETERNAL RESPONSIBILITY IS OUR ETERNAL WELLBEING, IF YOU AREN'T CAPABLE OF FULFILLING IT, YOU HAVE THE OBLIGATION TO NOT PUT YOURSELF IN ONE OR MORE OF THESE POSITIONS: PARENT, HEALTHCARE WORKER OR GOVERNMENT MEMBER. YOU WILL BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE IF FOR ANY REASON YOU FAIL TO FULFILL YOUR RESPONSIBILITY AS ONE OF THOSE THREE BODIES. YOU WILL ALSO BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE AS AN INDIVIDUAL WHO, FOR ANY REASON, FAILED TO FULFILL THEIR RESPONSIBILITY TO NOT PUT THEMSELVES IN ONE OR MORE OF THE ABOVE POSITIONS.. WE HAVE NO MERCY AND ZERO TOLERANCE FOR FLAWS AND INCAPABABILITIES. THEREFORE, IF INCAPABLE TO FULFILL SAID RESPONSIBILITIES, STAY AWAY FROM THE ABOVE POSITIONS OR ELSE YOU WILL FACE INEVITABLE CONSEQUENCES FOR FAILING."

We should let those words ring loud and clear whenever possible and I'm so glad to be able to share them here aswell.

I feel lucky my birth-givers were in my life long enough to hear a piece of my mind and ultimately the truth that should be, not just for me but in general. I also try to express this truth whenever I can especially to those who may have a certain level of impact and could spread it louder for me (if they do) like mental heathcare workers, lawyers etc....

I firmly stand by this truth as being complacent only results in suffering and the spread of suffering.

So, on a final note, since the damage has already been done and the current three bodies that are supposed to support our society are flawed or even straight up rotten, we as individuals have a handful of possible choices to take care of our own wellbeing (since now we know and we've come to realize the ugly truth that the current three bodies just can't and won't do it for us):

- Off ourselves out of this world.
- Speak our minds then off ourselves.
- Speak our minds, try to physically bring changes in the current three bodies then off ourselves.
- Speak our minds, try to physically bring changes in the current three bodies then wait for changes.
- Patiently hang on to the hope and possibility that the current three bodies might change..... soon..... maybe.... hopefully...... one day......
- Off ourselves because weaintgottimeforthat.

Ultimately, it's all personnal but I think it's important to make self-wellbeing one's root/core motivation whenever making a decision. And also to choose heart/soul over body.

As for me, I choose
- Speak my mind then off myself.


Lol, I'm the type to take minimal actions so I only do what I deem truly important, beneficial and useful for me.

So I only invest when I like the idea, it doesn't generate too many losses if failed but the rewards are juicy if successful. Lol.

Anyway, hi, I'm a new member (though I've been lurking for a while ehehe)

:happy:
Welcome

I think i understand some of what you have said.

i think the job of fighting for a better future sooner is a universal job but to force this on anyone does it then ruin such objectives as personal liberty or self determination? Fighting for a better future is a different meaning to responsibility for well being?

No fight for a better future has been begun by complacency. When the many accept slavery as right and the few see it as wrong then if the latter are complacent or stay silent then no better future will be won. But slaves who don't want to be slaves would have been protected by the right to die if no one of good conscience prevails. I have so many personal experiences of my life owned by and surrounded by those who have no good in them and so they even deny me my death as part of owning me and they want to make me a slave to human cruelty and evil.

Conscience is critical but to be good conscience the truth about evil and cruelty must be recognised. Much as complacency is the bane of the fight for a better future sooner (or well being) the problem is always being unable to recognise cruelty and evil.

When slavery existed many didn't see it is evil and recognise no good can come from slavery. To argue to end slavery would be met by rational reasons such as economic imperatives. To end slavery would have terrible economic consequences. But those of good conscience - those who thought differently from the many and did not accept the prevailing pre existing morality - saw something too evil to exist. The few had to lead change in mind and create a sense of equality and empathy for slaves as well as to fight against what at the time were seen to be rational arguments to perpetuate something as barbaric and evil as owning someone else's body and mind and being. But the fight depended on the few who recognised slavery is too evil to exist and no good can come from slavery.

To lead in government or healthcare or anywhere else requires the recognition of what is evil and cruelty. But in a true democracy as well as for any revolutionary change it is for the people to recognise evil and cruelty too. The monsters who call themselves the human race pursue their sadistic cruelty and pure evil by denying me my death.

(But it leads to the pain and misery of seeing all the evil and cruelty that prevails and constantly losing to those who have no good in them. The more evil you recognise is done to you as well as the more you recognise evil done to others like you the more likely you are going to suffer for the truth.)

(You are talking about responsibility but responsibility for evils and cruelties they cannot see happening or recognise is irresponsibility versus taking responsibility for knowing it is too evil and cruel to do to anyone but they do it anyway.)
 
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ManWithNoName

ManWithNoName

Visionary
Joined
Feb 2, 2019
Messages
920
People would not grind away in undignified circumstances if they saw exit as an option. Scarily for some, this would not actually mean a lot of de facto slaves killing themselves, it would mean rebellion instead.
Good point, when one has nothing, one has the carte blanche to do whatever without jeopardizing anything else in one's like. As the song Me And Bobby McGee goes "Freedom's just another word for nothin' left to lose".
 
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MindFog

MindFog

I'm not even having a good time
Joined
Nov 19, 2020
Messages
122
Well they're pro lifers, what do we even expect? Like the people who want to ban abortion but not give better access to contraceptives or proper sex ed.
You can almost make a chart on how similar their reaction are concerning suicide and premarital sex.
They want people to abide in their own sense of justice. Helping is never in their minds.

I wish there was a more humane way to ctb. If euthanasia is legal universally we wouldn't have to resort to these methods, but hell it's also getting blocked by people like these. The only option they give you is to abide or suffer. How draconian.
 
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OrdinaryDay

OrdinaryDay

Hollow
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Dec 6, 2019
Messages
111
Because people are masochists. Because pro lifes have this mindset of morally right thinking and they think that they know everything and that there is only 1 morally correct truth but all they know is how to produce more sentience to drain life off because there's a vision in their heads that dictates them that they're special, add God into the mixture, and you'll have a human who can't see past their nose.
 
Viceroy

Viceroy

Veteran
Joined
Oct 20, 2020
Messages
108
Not to mention chronical physical illnesses but because it´s not cancer nobody gives a shit about people suffering from this untreatable illnesses but the majority of citizens seem to be okay with people with cancer getting assisted suicide.
YES. Fucking sick of it. I'm in intolerable bodily discomfort ALL day and I can barely do anything but I should be glad cause it's not cancer. Fucking worthless idiots deciding who gets what. I deserve to die MORE then a terminally ill cancer patient cause at least they will naturally die but I'll have to live forever like this
 
HopelessBorderline

HopelessBorderline

Alive but not living
Joined
Oct 29, 2020
Messages
18
I've seen some of the attacks on twitter against this site. Some of the pro-lifers are basically taking the piss out of us admitting that we want to die. "Thank you for admitting that you visit this website to look for ways to die" or something along the lines of.
Do they not realise they're making things worse? They are mocking mentally ill people. One thing I would like to ask them is if they realise they are advertising the use of suicide forums and that they actually exist. A lot of people don't know about this website and I've seen the member figure shoot up since it's "advertising". The irony.
 
Sinkinshyp

Sinkinshyp

Enlightened
Joined
Sep 7, 2020
Messages
803
I've seen some of the attacks on twitter against this site. Some of the pro-lifers are basically taking the piss out of us admitting that we want to die. "Thank you for admitting that you visit this website to look for ways to die" or something along the lines of.
Do they not realise they're making things worse? They are mocking mentally ill people. One thing I would like to ask them is if they realise they are advertising the use of suicide forums and that they actually exist. A lot of people don't know about this website and I've seen the member figure shoot up since it's "advertising". The irony.
I have thought the same thing- they're advertising for the forum. The only way I found the forum- a facebook bereaved mother group- a woman said my son took sodium nitrite who ever heard of such a thing? in my deeply depressed suicidal mind I looked up sodium nitrite, found the wiki and that brought me here. It wasn't easy to find- only because a mother in a bereaved mom group said her son took SN did I find my way here. I can't tell you whose mother it was I don't even know. I have left the bereaved mom groups so I can't even guess which one it was. I never participated in them. A couple of times I posted a picture of my son. Once right before that mom mentioned her son took SN- I did post a picture of my son and said I cannot exist anymore. I refuse to continue to wake up to have this pain everyday. I had my mind set I was going to CTB. There wasn't individual support in the groups like it is here. They just say I know Momma I feel the same way. I could post I'm going to shoot myself and I would probably get 100 replies- I know Momma I feel the same way. As a mom with a child no longer here- yes, I do believe we all feel the same way. Most of them don't want to wake up but... most are not planning to take their lives. If death were to greet them they would welcome it but they aren't going to end life by their own hands. I say most because yes, there are other mothers like me who are 1 step from doing something to get out of this forced existence. I could never put into words just how painful opening your eyes can be without your child here or trying to sleep knowing your child is dead. I play mental games with myself and pretend my son is out of town working. Than I hear a car that sounds like his did- I shake my heart beats like crazy and I run to the street... to walk back inside in hysterics. It's a loss and a pain one is never prepared for. My heart goes out to anyone who has lost a child.

"Do they not realise they're making things worse? They are mocking mentally ill people. " I can't speak for others. I've had a real shit show of a life I was born into hell. Mental illness runs in my moms family. In fact a few days ago I asked has anyone in the family committed suicide? she said nope. I said woot I'll be the first! Between the hell I was born into and the hell I have been through and genetics I don't have the tools to function since my son died. My first "attempted" suicide I was 12. I took an entire bottle of vitamins lmao I thought it would work. Becoming a single mom at 20- my son was my entire world. 8 1/2 years later I welcomed my younger son- now my world is my 2 sons. The love, happiness and I had all I ever wanted- a happy family those good feelings over rode my depression. My kids needing me I kept myself highly functioning and the depression was kept in control until my son died. I have ALWAYS had depression and especially bad anxiety. I was a suicidal teenager. I know what it feels like to be in such darkness and torture you just want to die to get away from it. I was there as a teenager and found myself back there even worse after my son died. Someone who had a good childhood, upbringing, a normal good life- could they begin to understand how we feel? I don't think so. The only comparison they could probably try to say is well, I have bad days too. They can't feel or understand it just isn't a bad day- it's every moment is bad. Fighting with yourself in your head all day- trying to see some light but it's total darkness. To understand another's pain I think you have to go through something similar.

When my son was alive- if I go back to the time both my boys were home pre October 2017. I was the happiest I ever was, I got to know pure unconditional love and happiness- I had a 25 yr old son who loved me and was my best friend and a almost 16 yr old son who loved me as well. I HAD all I ever wanted in life- a happy family. I would have viewed this forum very differently. I honestly cant say what I would have thought. I can say it isn't the same way as I view it now. I probably would have thought people just need help to find meaning in life. Having my son at 20 put the first meaning into my life. Life was hard but I pushed through until he died. I died with him. My suicidal thoughts were gone when I had my son but when he died 25 years 4 months and 2 days after he was born those thoughts came back with a vengeance. I question myself being here on the forum because the old me- the one everyone looked up to, the one everyone asked me hey can I stay with you for a while, the one who was raising 2 amazing boys alone, the one that everyone even my mom and brother said you are the strongest person I know- that person would not be here. I overcame so much abuse & trauma, had the worst luck everything turned to crap- ex in laws always said if it weren't for bad luck you would have none at all- but I kept trying for my sons. NO matter what was thrown at me- I tackled it for my sons. Now... I died with my older son. I am not that person anymore and never will be again. I'm beyond broken and destroyed. This shell of a human sitting here- can understand the forum.
 
TheGoodGuy

TheGoodGuy

Angelic
Joined
Aug 27, 2018
Messages
2,474
YES. Fucking sick of it. I'm in intolerable bodily discomfort ALL day and I can barely do anything but I should be glad cause it's not cancer. Fucking worthless idiots deciding who gets what. I deserve to die MORE then a terminally ill cancer patient cause at least they will naturally die but I'll have to live forever like this
I know right. I have no friends anymore, can´t workout or do basically anything the people who get diagnosed with terminal cancer usually are happy people with good lives so they will die with a short time of unhappiness if they get assisted suicide and still they will have friends and hobbies they can enjoy till their last day while we are stuck in this flesh prison of a body that not only mentally doesn´t function right but even physically it doesn´t work but we should be grateful that we don´t have cancer? No we shouldn´t people mostly know about how bad cancer is so everything less than cancer is irrelevant to them I fucking hate how ignorant people are, people will never understand how it is to experience our physical illnesses only if they experience them themselves and that goes for essentially everything; people can never truly understand how something feels until they have EXPERIENCED it themselves and then it doesn´t matter how much they have read about it they have to experience it before they truly know how it feels.

And again pets can get euthanatized if they become too sick yet humans can´t only some people in a selected few countries where as you said it "worthless idiots gets to decide who gets what". "My body my right" apparently doesn´t apply when it comes to suicide then it´s everyone´s else decision if it´s the right choice which is impossible for them to access since they are not you or me I mean how could they possible decide other people´s life, it´s completely subjective what anyone can handle or even if they are "just" nihilistic and don´t see a meaning in all the work to put into life just for a little reward even if they are perfectly healthy both physically and mentally it´s still their choice if they want to ctb NOT everyone´s else. But people think they know better than suicidal people despite someone like me even has about 17 physical and mental illnesses several of them chronical but sure they know better what is best for me.

And something that is contradictory is that if you want to ctb because well you don´t see any reason to work for the majority of your life at a job you don´t like and even make you more depressed you still aren´t allowed to ctb and if you got caught in the act you will get put into a psych ward and when released you have two choices work to keep yourselves alive or ctb. To me it doesn´t seem logic that you HAVE to work if you don´t want to while simultaneously aren´t allowed to ctb you´re literally a slave. The least they could do and I mean least is give us a regular paycheck each month to stay alive or let us get assisted suicide it doesn´t seem right you are not allowed to ctb but HAVE to work, even if I was perfectly healthy I DON´T want to work last time I did I worked 10 hours a day 5 days a week and went down with depression after only 1½ month and had to quit (I was 18) but after only 1-2 weeks I realized I had to work 5 days a week 10 hours a day at a job I have no passion for for the rest of my life and I couldn´t handle that realization, and I don´t have a passion to work at any other jobs I have no passions or hobbies left and certainly not to work. Sorry this turned into a fucking novel I was just venting I guess.
 
A

AutoTap

Arcanist
Joined
Nov 11, 2020
Messages
521
If you search on Twitter ‘sanctioned suicide website’ you can see all the tweets and then there is a change.org petition also, I completely understand people are upset/angry that they’ve lost a loved one who used this site but it’s not the site that is the problem. Banning this website won’t prevent any suicides.

If they ban the website I’m more likely to ctb tbh
Exactly. The quickest time I’ve ever got into a therapist took roughly two months. Most people I know who’ve called the hotlines say it made them feel worst or it didn’t help them at all. When getting help often time we are looked down upon, told we are not trying hard enough, and that it’s in our mind. This doesn’t help in anyway, especially since 99.9% would preferably have their problems be solved or helped.

I suffer from extreme chronic anxiety disorders and depression. Yet I’m treated like someone who has moderate anxiety and then told I’m not trying hard enough. Like it’s not my fault the meds and therapy isn’t helping me when I’m doing what I’m told.

Then to top it all off they still expect you to get better and not want to ctb or even think of ctb. Like what? It’s simply not rational to want to suffer and be in pain for long periods of time.

Don’t get me started on psych wards. I’ve luckily never gone but I’ve never heard a positive or neutral experience. The staff was always rude, understaffed, and its more there because it legally needs to be and makes them some money instead of helping people.
 
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B

bornfree

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Joined
May 10, 2020
Messages
111
They fail to recognise what unbearable quality of life is throughout history. Even now. The needs of physical and mental quality of life are individual but have some commonalities. But quality of life worse than death - for pain or any other reason - is very common if not universal for the decision to die.

There is no life when quality of life is so unbearable it causes suicidal thoughts and feelings. I see it as no life when death is a better than life. Those against suicide and assisted suicide have no understanding that sanctity of life is an ethic that is in dependent on quality of life. They don't comprehend this part of consciousness and sentient beings that we cannot survive any life and any pain and any cruelty and any quality of life - but this is the truth from the evidence of suicidal minds but the anti suicide movement don't see this truth so they are against suicide and assisted suicide and ultimately this makes them fail to care.

The issue of ethics is the problem with seeing death as the worst possible thing that can happen. This leads to a beautiful ethic like sanctity of life being turned into the brutality of the criminalisation of assisted suicide. Death is not the worst thing that can happen to someone - this is the truth understood by seeing suicidal thoughts and feelings as a rational and natural response.
 
B

bornfree

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I have thought the same thing- they're advertising for the forum. The only way I found the forum- a facebook bereaved mother group- a woman said my son took sodium nitrite who ever heard of such a thing? in my deeply depressed suicidal mind I looked up sodium nitrite, found the wiki and that brought me here. It wasn't easy to find- only because a mother in a bereaved mom group said her son took SN did I find my way here. I can't tell you whose mother it was I don't even know. I have left the bereaved mom groups so I can't even guess which one it was. I never participated in them. A couple of times I posted a picture of my son. Once right before that mom mentioned her son took SN- I did post a picture of my son and said I cannot exist anymore. I refuse to continue to wake up to have this pain everyday. I had my mind set I was going to CTB. There wasn't individual support in the groups like it is here. They just say I know Momma I feel the same way. I could post I'm going to shoot myself and I would probably get 100 replies- I know Momma I feel the same way. As a mom with a child no longer here- yes, I do believe we all feel the same way. Most of them don't want to wake up but... most are not planning to take their lives. If death were to greet them they would welcome it but they aren't going to end life by their own hands. I say most because yes, there are other mothers like me who are 1 step from doing something to get out of this forced existence. I could never put into words just how painful opening your eyes can be without your child here or trying to sleep knowing your child is dead. I play mental games with myself and pretend my son is out of town working. Than I hear a car that sounds like his did- I shake my heart beats like crazy and I run to the street... to walk back inside in hysterics. It's a loss and a pain one is never prepared for. My heart goes out to anyone who has lost a child.

"Do they not realise they're making things worse? They are mocking mentally ill people. " I can't speak for others. I've had a real shit show of a life I was born into hell. Mental illness runs in my moms family. In fact a few days ago I asked has anyone in the family committed suicide? she said nope. I said woot I'll be the first! Between the hell I was born into and the hell I have been through and genetics I don't have the tools to function since my son died. My first "attempted" suicide I was 12. I took an entire bottle of vitamins lmao I thought it would work. Becoming a single mom at 20- my son was my entire world. 8 1/2 years later I welcomed my younger son- now my world is my 2 sons. The love, happiness and I had all I ever wanted- a happy family those good feelings over rode my depression. My kids needing me I kept myself highly functioning and the depression was kept in control until my son died. I have ALWAYS had depression and especially bad anxiety. I was a suicidal teenager. I know what it feels like to be in such darkness and torture you just want to die to get away from it. I was there as a teenager and found myself back there even worse after my son died. Someone who had a good childhood, upbringing, a normal good life- could they begin to understand how we feel? I don't think so. The only comparison they could probably try to say is well, I have bad days too. They can't feel or understand it just isn't a bad day- it's every moment is bad. Fighting with yourself in your head all day- trying to see some light but it's total darkness. To understand another's pain I think you have to go through something similar.

When my son was alive- if I go back to the time both my boys were home pre October 2017. I was the happiest I ever was, I got to know pure unconditional love and happiness- I had a 25 yr old son who loved me and was my best friend and a almost 16 yr old son who loved me as well. I HAD all I ever wanted in life- a happy family. I would have viewed this forum very differently. I honestly cant say what I would have thought. I can say it isn't the same way as I view it now. I probably would have thought people just need help to find meaning in life. Having my son at 20 put the first meaning into my life. Life was hard but I pushed through until he died. I died with him. My suicidal thoughts were gone when I had my son but when he died 25 years 4 months and 2 days after he was born those thoughts came back with a vengeance. I question myself being here on the forum because the old me- the one everyone looked up to, the one everyone asked me hey can I stay with you for a while, the one who was raising 2 amazing boys alone, the one that everyone even my mom and brother said you are the strongest person I know- that person would not be here. I overcame so much abuse & trauma, had the worst luck everything turned to crap- ex in laws always said if it weren't for bad luck you would have none at all- but I kept trying for my sons. NO matter what was thrown at me- I tackled it for my sons. Now... I died with my older son. I am not that person anymore and never will be again. I'm beyond broken and destroyed. This shell of a human sitting here- can understand the forum.
i read this earlier today and didn't feel anything and just thought about myself. I was reminded how poor my empathy is so thought to come back to this for some reason. Even now I am making it about myself.

I can have empathy for you as a suicidal individual. You express a sense of duty i feel in how you struggled to be the best mother you can be and i can only feel empathy for the pain of mothers by how i feel about my cat. My cat is the uncontrollable child who i don't want to lose to my poor care skills. I have a choice to ruin her quality of life by feeding her special food to help with her kidney disease that is bland and would make her unhappy versus the food she loves that will kill her quicker and having to trust vets who really don't have the competency to care.

i have not thought about the pain of parents losing a child but i feel it worse than death like a suicidal individual does. Your great capacity to feel i do understand by your pain in childhood and some of your pain in motherhood as well as the happiness of pure unconditional love. "no matter what was thrown on me i tackled it for my sons" is a sense of love and the sense of duty of love you express beautifully.

I can only wish your life was never so bad with what little empathy i have for mothers but with what i feel for suicidal individuals. I am wracking my brain to find something to say to you to make it better and less awful and i have absolutely nothing good enough to say to you.
 
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GoneGoneGone

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Because they care that THEIR children died, they don’t care if you die. They are so focused on the HOW that they do not ask themselves WHY - this would imply that they would need to check their behavior as parents and feel guilt for things they’ve done that hurt their children or haven’t done to help their children.

Plus, they’re not blaming this website per se, they’re claiming liability with Cloudfare for hosting it because Ms Wilson is hungry for some dough after she stuffed her poor boy with antidepressants without even reading the side effects of antidepressants i.e., increased suicidal ideation until reaching therapeutic levels.
 

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