Discussion What do you want to happen after you pass away?

TheSomebody

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It all depends on what you mean by 'material' and 'immaterial'.
Things get complicated and uncertain when you get down to the fundamental physics.
If your hardware analogy is accurate then you'd be correct.
But perhaps consciousness is more like electromagnetic radio waves, and the body is a radio which converts the waves to mechanical vibrations so they can be heard. When the radio breaks, the radio waves still go on existing.


Immaterial things I would say, things that are not palpable, such as digital and psychological nature (memory, personality, etc.)

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It makes no sense for the conscience to be "radio waves".
You cannot change the content that inside a radio, simple because that content is not being generated by the radio, but on the broadcaster. If I wanted to change the content of that radio I would have to ask the broadcaster.

However, it is possible to change the content that is inside the brain, simply because that's where the content is being generated.
. Brain damage does that kind of thing. A person who hits they head may lose memory, have drastic personality changes, etc.
 
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AJ95

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What I want to be after death: I hope there’s a happy afterlife where I can see my doggies again and maybe Bob Ross too. I want to be whoever I want over there, and not hate myself anymore. I just want to be happy and bask in golden sunlight.

What I want to happen to me: I want to be cremated and have my ashes scattered at the house I used to live in, out in the country.
 
TheSomebody

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This is honestly my biggest concern. There isn’t anything in our known universe that turns into nothing, since it isn’t possible... Every aspect of the universe shifts into a different thing when it expires. Why would consciousness work so uniquely different. I would love to believe there is nothing after death, but nothing doesn’t exist.


Immaterial things constantly become nothing. Memories are an example. You are constantly creating and deleting memories, proof that they really cease to exist.
 
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This is honestly my biggest concern. There isn’t anything in our known universe that turns into nothing, since it isn’t possible... Every aspect of the universe shifts into a different thing when it expires. Why would consciousness work so uniquely different. I would love to believe there is nothing after death, but nothing doesn’t exist.
Counter point to this is, what was before you were alive? What do you remember? Nothing. So your consciousness either came from nothing which would mean it could end with nothing. Or it came from something that isn't consciousness? Which means it could go the same way, and as such you experience nothing. I dunno, the idea of an afterlife of any kind is just so incredibly terrifying I don't want to consider it a possibility.
 
RoseyBird

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Counter point to this is, what was before you were alive? What do you remember? Nothing. So your consciousness either came from nothing which would mean it could end with nothing. Or it came from something that isn't consciousness? Which means it could go the same way, and as such you experience nothing. I dunno, the idea of an afterlife of any kind is just so incredibly terrifying I don't want to consider it a possibility.
Unfortunately just because we don’t remember things doesn’t mean they didn’t happen. Even when unconscious or under anesthesia your brain and system still have experiences. It’s within the realm of possibility consciousnesses shifted from something else.
 
TheSomebody

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Unfortunately just because we don’t remember things doesn’t mean they didn’t happen. Even when unconscious or under anesthesia your brain and system still have experiences. It’s within the realm of possibility consciousnesses shifted from something else.

Everything that exists has a beginning.

So your conscience was "nothing" once.
 
RoseyBird

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Immaterial things constantly become nothing. Memories are an example. You are constantly creating and deleting memories, proof that they really cease to exist.
Just because you can’t access the memories doesn’t mean they are gone. The results of them can still often be seen in the psych and body. Things being created is not evidence that things can cease to exist. They are different processes entirely.
So your conscience was "nothing" once.
Not a provable assumption.
 
TheSomebody

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Just because you can’t access the memories doesn’t mean they are gone. The results of them can still often be seen in the psych and body. Things being created is not evidence that things can cease to exist. They are different processes entirely.
Not really, some memories are so small and insignificant that they have no influence on your psychological. 24 hours of your life, you are creating memories and erasing millions more that you will never remember. These memories ceased to exist.
Not a provable assumption.


So do you think we've been conscious for 15 billion years? Before everything exists? And everything that exists in the universe has always existed too? That is a very strong statement you know.
 
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RoseyBird

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Not really, some memories are so small and insignificant that they have no influence on your psychological. 24 hours of your life, you are creating memories and erasing millions more that you will never remember. These memories ceased to exist.
We learn from everything we experience. Even if it’s so small you don’t make note of it doesn’t mean your system didn’t bank it in one way or another. If you have scientific reference to back up the claim that small experiences have literal absolute zero effect on the mind or body I would be interested to read it. I’m very happy to expand my understanding of things.
 
TheSomebody

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I'm curious to know how something you dont remember nothing affects your psyche.

how do you explain people with severe alzheimer's? Are you going to tell me that they remember everything that happened in their lives and everything is kept in a magical place, who knows where it is, affecting their psyche?
 
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RoseyBird

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I'm curious to know how something you dont remember nothing affects your psyche
It’s not reasonable to pass the burden of proof back to me when you make a claim and I ask for evidence. It’s ok to just work in assumption anyway.
 
Theodora

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Forever dreaming would be nice
 
TheSomebody

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It’s not reasonable to pass the burden of proof back to me when you make a claim and I ask for evidence. It’s ok to just work in assumption anyway.

Also, even if I agree with you, that no memory is erased, just banked somewhere. If you don't remember/acess it, then it is worthless.

Perhaps consciousness never ceases to exist, but you may never be able to access it again because your body is dead.

Comatose people do not access their consciousness either, but it is still "there".

Reports of these people saying they remember nothing at all, just a huge "void". So yes, existing does not mean having access.
 
Mr2005

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Not really, some memories are so small and insignificant that they have no influence on your psychological. 24 hours of your life, you are creating memories and erasing millions more that you will never remember. These memories ceased to exist.



So do you think we've been conscious for 15 billion years? Before everything exists? And everything that exists in the universe has always existed too? That is a very strong statement you know.
Now just tell me how to erase memories at will and I won't even be thinking about death
 
RoseyBird

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Also, even if I agree with you, that no memory is erased, just banked somewhere. If you don't remember/acess it, then it is worthless.

Perhaps consciousness never ceases to exist, but you may never be able to access it again because your body is dead..
Also very possible. I can’t say that would be a bad outcome.
 
Iseeblue_711

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I don t really think there is anything after death, but deep down I dream of dying and getting to meet my father again, and be with him, travelling through space and time, forever, and to also see my uncle again.
 
TheSomebody

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Now just tell me how to erase memories at will and I won't even be thinking about death
I did not understand what you meant.

Also very possible. I can’t say that would be a bad outcome.

want to know something, if memories cannot be reduced to nothing, then where is our memory from before we were born?
 
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Mr2005

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I did not understand what you meant.

I want to know something, if memories cannot be reduced to nothing, then where is our memory from before we were born?


want to know something, if memories cannot be reduced to nothing, then where is our memory from before we were born?
"You are creating memories and erasing millions more that you will never remember" There's things I don't want to remember
 
TheSomebody

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"You are creating memories and erasing millions more that you will never remember" There's things I don't want to remember
just said something that happens naturally. In our day, we hear and see hundreds of things that we delete unconsciously in the next minute, because our memory is not perfect. Things like a license plate from a random car that you observe, a pedestrian that you saw on the street, or the shape of a cloud etc. etc.
 
Mr2005

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just said something that happens naturally. In our day, we hear and see hundreds of things that we delete unconsciously in the next minute, because our memory is not perfect. Things like a license plate from a random car that you observe, a pedestrian that you saw on the street, or the shape of a cloud etc. etc.
Agreed. I didn't really expect you to have the answer but some things you don't ever forget and it's a life sentence. All to do with how it impacts you emotionally
 
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What I want to be after death: I hope there’s a happy afterlife where I can see my doggies again and maybe Bob Ross too. I want to be whoever I want over there, and not hate myself anymore. I just want to be happy and bask in golden sunlight.

What I want to happen to me: I want to be cremated and have my ashes scattered at the house I used to live in, out in the country.
I feel like there is nothing after death like you never existed no pain no memory no family no job no pressure no eyes to see no skin to feel no body to move no time to pass like you are free from this nightmare of life ... And most importantly no regrets to have bcoz of no memory as and that's what I want an eternal rest with no pain no thoughts absolutely nothing no heaven no hell no college no family no hunger a complete nothingness
 
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esse_est_percipi

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This is honestly my biggest concern. There isn’t anything in our known universe that turns into nothing, since it isn’t possible... Every aspect of the universe shifts into a different thing when it expires. Why would consciousness work so uniquely different. I would love to believe there is nothing after death, but nothing doesn’t exist.
Yes.
And also, let's assume there was 'nothing' before birth. Well that 'nothing' still managed to turn into consciousness at one point in time. So why should we assume that it can't also happen after death? If we dogmatically pronounce that there is eternal nothingness after death, then there would be an asymmetry there which we would need to justify.
makes no sense for the conscience to be "radio waves".
I didn't say consciousness is radio waves, I was just making an analogy.
However, it is possible to change the content that is inside the brain, simply because that's where the content is being generated.
You can change the sound vibrations produced by the radio, by breaking the radio. If you damage parts in a radio, the reception of the transmission of radio waves will be faulty and sound produced will not be smooth.
There is no evidence at all that consciousness is entirely generated inside the brain. There isn't even any evidence that consciousness is generated. It might be a fundamental feature of reality. Matter might be generated by consciousness.
 
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I believe thats it’s peaceful, we are not in pain just pure bliss, harmony and to be with other family members/friends that have passed away
 
TheSomebody

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You can change the content inside the radio, by breaking the radio. If you damage parts in a radio, the reception.of the transmission will be faulty and sound produced will not be smooth.
There is no evidence at all that consciousness is generated i side the brain. There isn't even any evidence that consciousness is generated. It might beva fundamental feature of reality. Matter might be generated by consciousness.



I know it's an analogy, so I used quotes.
And no, a defective sound is not a different content, because the music or news that is playing on that radio will still remain the same, only with less quality. But a person who has a damaged brain can become a completely different person than they were before, that is, the content in their brain has changed.
 
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esse_est_percipi

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Immaterial things constantly become nothing. Memories are an example
Nothing becomes nothing. Energy cannot be created or destroyed.
There is also no evidence that memories can be reduced to brain states. You can look all you want inside a brain, you'll never observe someone's memories. There can be neural correlates, but correlates are not evidence of identities. Sure, you can 'lose' memories by damage to the brain, but that is no more evidence that the memories have been really lost than that a radio broadcast frequency is lost if a particular radio becomes damaged.
Everything that exists has a beginning.

So your conscience was "nothing" once.
'Nothing' doesn't exist, by definition.
you are creating memories and erasing millions more that you will never remember. These memories ceased to exist.
Memories not being remembered is not evidence that they 'cease to exist'.
It could in fact be argued that everything we ever experienced is retained somewhere, even though we cannot access it all, which is why people report that their 'whole life flashed before their eyes' in NDE's.
So do you think we've been conscious for 15 billion years? Before everything exists? And everything that exists in the universe has always existed too?
Who knows.
If the big bang really was the beginning of everything, then how did something come out of nothing?
I have the suspicion that the initial singularity of the big bang took place within the wider context of something else.
 
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TheSomebody

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Nothing becomes nothing. Energy cannot be created or destroyed.
There is also no evidence that memories can be reduced to brain states. You can look all you want inside a brain, you'll never observe someone's memories. There can be neural correlates, but correlates are not evidence of identities. Sure, you can 'lose' memories by damage to the brain, but that is no more evidence that the memories have been really lost than that a radio broadcast frequency is lost if a particular radio becomes damaged.

'Nothing' doesn't exist, by definition.

Memories not being remembered is not evidence that they 'cease to exist'.
It could in fact be argued that everything we ever experienced is retained somewhere, even though we cannot access it all, which is why people report that their 'whole life flashed before their eyes' in NDE's.


Nothing is the opposite of existing, not a thing. What existed- logically had a beginning- if it had a beginning is because it had a point where it did not exist- And if that did not exist once, nothing prevents it from returning to its starting point.

if memories are never erased, then where is your memory from your past lives and whole 15 billions of existence? If you tell me that they are recorded in a magical place, then the burden of the proof falls on you. Thus it is impossible for you to prove to me that everything that exists has always existed.

Also, things like concept can
return to nothing as well. Like life and death.
 
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esse_est_percipi

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I'm curious to know how something you dont remember nothing affects your psyche.
Bad memories can be repressed in childhood for example, but continue to impact conscious thoughts and behavior. This is the whole premise of psychoanalysis.
a defective sound is not a different content, because the music or news that is playing on that radio will still remain the same, only with less quality. But a person who has a damaged brain can become a completely different person than they were before, that is, the content in their brain has changed.
You can tinker with the inside of a radio in such a way as to make its sound output indistinguishable from its receiving a different transmission, even though it's receiving the same transmission but is relaying it defectively.
In the same way, a brain damaged person is not evidence that the underlying consciousness of their experience is completely different, only that the receiving device is defective.
Nothing is the opposite of existing, not a thing. What existed- logically had a beginning- if it had a beginning is because it had a point where it did not exist- And if that did not exist once, nothing prevents it from returning to its starting point.
Where I wouldn't agree is in saying that anything has a strict beginning. If the whole universe obeys the laws of thermodynamics, then there really is no such thing as things having a beginning or starting to exist in the strict sense. What happens is that types of energy get transformed into other types of energy, overall in the direction of entropy, but sometimes in the opposite direction where localized thermonuclear processes provide energy for nearby planets, which can produce life forms in the right chemical conditions. A 'beginning' can be described as a localized decrease in entropy, but cannot be described as something coming to exist from nothing.

It's all a constant process of transformation and flux, and what is perceived to be something 'beginning to exist' is atoms and particles and other forces arranging themselves in certain ways and formations at certain points in time. How consciousness fits into this is currently unknown, but it can no more become nothing than a hydrogen atom can become nothing.
 
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TheSomebody

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You can tinker with the inside of a radio in such a way as to make its sound output indistinguishable from its receiving a different transmission, even though it's receiving the same transmission but is relaying it defectively.
In the same way, a brain damaged person is not evidence that the underlying consciousness of their experience is completely different, only that the receiving device is defective.

Lets assume consciousness cannot be deleted, but its access can still be blocked without properly device. However, not having access to consciousness is the same as not existing.

we arrived at a paradox? if I block your conscience it would be the same as you being nothing(coma).

So your consciousness ceased to exist, but It still exists (just isn't accessible anymore.)
 
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esse_est_percipi

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if memories are never erased, then where is your memory from your past lives and whole 15 billions of existence? If you tell me that they are recorded in a magical place, then the burden of the proof falls on you. Thus it is impossible for you to prove to me that everything that exists has always existed.
Well, you could come at it from the angle of special/general relativity. According to that, there is no such thing as an absolute past or future, since all time statements have to be specified as part of local coordinate systems and relative frames of reference.

Because the speed of light is finite and constant and the universe is expanding exponentially, events that happened billions of years ago could still theoretically be observed somewhere on the far reaches of the universe. I know that this would merely be photons and electromagnetic waves relaying information and wouldn't be the 'actual' events as they took place, but for external observers there is no difference in kind whether you observe an event 'directly' (which is still just about photons being relayed from reverberations in the environment into the eye which then transform into electrical signals via the optic nerve and are then interpreted by neurochemicals to form a mental construct of the 'external world') or a billion years later at the outer edge of the universe.
Lets assume consciousness cannot be deleted, but its access can still be blocked without properly device. However, not having access to consciousness is the same as not existing.

we arrived at a paradox? if I block your conscience it would be the same as you being nothing(coma).

So your consciousness ceased to exist, but It still exists (just isn't accessible anymore.)
It depends what you mean by 'not having access to consciousness'.
What is it that isn't having access to it? If you mean the brain then you are assuming that the only locus of possible experience is the brain, which is an assumption.
If consciousness is independent of the brain, then blocking its access to a particular brain wouldn't stop it existing.
But we don't know if this is the case or not.

Yes, you can be asleep or be in a coma, and this seems to momentarily 'block' consciousness, but I would argue that the 'gap' isn't experienced as nothingness. You just go into a coma, then awake, or go to sleep, maybe dream, then awake. You don't experience the gap as 'nothingness', it's just a momentary interruption in the continuity of conscious experience.
Lets assume consciousness cannot be deleted, but its access can still be blocked without properly device. However, not having access to consciousness is the same as not existing.

we arrived at a paradox? if I block your conscience it would be the same as you being nothing(coma).

So your consciousness ceased to exist, but It still exists (just isn't accessible anymore.)
Interesting paper:
 
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