We are the selfish ones for wanting to die

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You Can Call Me Al

You Can Call Me Al

Member
Apr 17, 2018
34
101
Talk to any person you know about suicide and 90% of them will say how selfish it is of a person to commit suicide. As if our lives are only for the comfort of other people. It will never matter our amount of suffering because obviously we are supposed to make our life choices solely on how someone else might feel. I can’t imagine the level of heartlessness and lack of empathy it takes to see someone in so much pain that they couldn’t live anymore and say, “Well what about me? How dare they because I exist and now I’m sad. They shoulda thought about me instead.”
 

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wanttodie

wanttodie

Illuminated
Apr 19, 2018
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don,t thank
We are the selfish for wanting to die
 
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El Topo

El Topo

(---)
Apr 21, 2018
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The only pain we can ever know is our own, and therefore we have no right to judge another person's response to their own pain, a pain that we will never feel or understand.
 
Squidward

Squidward

*
Apr 18, 2018
63
140
There's nothing inherently wrong with selfishness or cowardice. Those are just the words they're comfortable using to insult and strike the conversation down before they have to confront the reality of death and our undeniable control over it.

The freedom and sense of control that we gain solace from seems to terrify everyone else.
 
Sonnenblume

Sonnenblume

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Apr 6, 2018
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There's nothing inherently wrong with selfishness or cowardice. Those are just the words they're comfortable using to insult and strike the conversation down before they have to confront the reality of death and our undeniable control over it.

The freedom and sense of control that we gain solace from seems to terrify everyone else.
They don't like people having what they can't. They have resigned themselves to accepting whatever shit life heaps on them so, of course, everyone else has to do the same. It's just a mob mentality. Be part of the borg or we'll insult you, proclaim authority over you, ostracize you, disrespect you, lock you up, and pump you full of drugs. When I think of it, it's not that different from abuse.

That said, there are some suicidal people who are truly off their rockers. Like paranoid types who think the mob is after them or some shit. They do need legit help. But even then, if therapy is tried and they don't get any better within a reasonable time, and still want to die they should have the right.
 
Squidward

Squidward

*
Apr 18, 2018
63
140
But even then, if therapy is tried and they don't get any better within a reasonable time, and still want to die they should have the right.
I struggle with this argument often, because I agree, some people need help (and we should offer it!) but can't imagine how it would work in practice.
Do we still force it on them? It's not too hard to justify in some situations and I don't see that changing anytime soon.
Then who decides how much treatment is enough and what a reasonable amount of time is? What a bureaucratic nightmare that'd be, lol.

I think a potential real world step would be putting strict limits on the length people can be hospitalized for and the extent of treatment that is involuntary once in. Surveillance and restriction is one thing, a doctor having the legal ability to forcibly drug you or threaten your eventual freedom without you committing a crime is an entirely different abuse I can't justify under any circumstance I've ever considered.

Soo I kinda went off on a rant there, I hope it doesn't seem like I'm arguing at you. Outside of my pedantry I completely agree.
 
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Lion

Lion

Zzz
Apr 18, 2018
65
97
Besides calling us selfish there are also those who call us cowards. Ugh.
Saying someone's either selfish or a coward when committed suicide is just so disrespectful in my opinion.
Coward??? is it cowardly to put down a dog? is it cowardly to pull the plug on ur grandma? let these people experience how I've felt for the past 20 years and let's see how they like being called a coward wanting to put an end to it.
 
Sonnenblume

Sonnenblume

Sunflower Panda
Apr 6, 2018
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I struggle with this argument often, because I agree, some people need help (and we should offer it!) but can't imagine how it would work in practice.
Do we still force it on them? It's not too hard to justify in some situations and I don't see that changing anytime soon.
Then who decides how much treatment is enough and what a reasonable amount of time is? What a bureaucratic nightmare that'd be, lol.

I think a potential real world step would be putting strict limits on the length people can be hospitalized for and the extent of treatment that is involuntary once in. Surveillance and restriction is one thing, a doctor having the legal ability to forcibly drug you or threaten your eventual freedom without you committing a crime is an entirely different abuse I can't justify under any circumstance I've ever considered.

Soo I kinda went off on a rant there, I hope it doesn't seem like I'm arguing at you. Outside of my pedantry I completely agree.
I don't think help should be forced, tbh But I know the life-lovery types will have a fit so I'm conceding, a bit. I think if you do force treatment a no more than 6 month limit is reasonable. This is strictly speaking for people who are not a danger to others.

I think, technically, one cannot be forced to take drugs but they'll basically harass you and threaten to keep you longer if you don't, so same thing.
 
Squidward

Squidward

*
Apr 18, 2018
63
140
I think if you do force treatment a no more than 6 month limit is reasonable. This is strictly speaking for people who are not a danger to others.
I was thinking along the lines of weeks. Imo the entire point should be to prevent impulsive suicide and/or offer help to those who want it. And unfortunately the limits would have to apply to any non criminal, regardless of the percieved potential danger to others. Psychiatry isn't competent enough to start enforcing thought crimes, nor does it have the authority to justify such power.

I think, technically, one cannot be forced to take drugs but they'll basically harass you and threaten to keep you longer if you don't, so same thing.
Otherwise shit like this will remain possible.
 
J

Journeytoletgo

Member
May 14, 2018
89
142
What’s selfish is expecting someone to stay alive for someone else’s emotional convenience because they can’t handle losing you. I’m past thinking of how others will deal once I am gone. Their pain will ease in time. I’m not staying alive for others just to be a presence for them because they can’t accept losing me
 
Deathcards

Deathcards

New Member
May 11, 2018
4
6
I've come to accept it. Pretty much everything in this existence is trying to keep you alive and feed off your energy, like a contagion or virus would. You're instincts prevent you from killing yourself, there are physical barriers, things that pull you into living another day, then there are others like you mention who'll do whatever they can to prevent you from dieing. Thats just how the universe is designed. Look at the cells in body, or the planets, its all the same mechanism. We're trapped in a net, and we're all part of it holding it together. I'm thinking we just need need to cultivate the will to separate and overcome it through a higher understanding.
 
M

MAIO

Enlightened
Apr 8, 2018
802
2,402
Talk to any person you know about suicide and 90% of them will say how selfish it is of a person to commit suicide. As if our lives are only for the comfort of other people. It will never matter our amount of suffering because obviously we are supposed to make our life choices solely on how someone else might feel. I can’t imagine the level of heartlessness and lack of empathy it takes to see someone in so much pain that they couldn’t live anymore and say, “Well what about me? How dare they because I exist and now I’m sad. They shoulda thought about me instead.”
Look life is like a cult. Do not take what they seriously. They have not even objectively thought about life and death.

"Suicide is selfish"

1)Suicide is the most stigmaitzied concept in society according to many experts. So most of the emotional reaction is due to stigma. Do you think you are responsible for this stigma? If so give me an example/explain why.

2) Society always says to do what is best for you as you are not your families property. Ie If you are trans and come out of the closest and it hurts your parents society does not say you should feel bad because it hurts your parents. So why would you be responsible in this case for emotional reaction etc? ie your not its an angelic standard

3)People are generally selfish not selfless

4)"suicide is selfish like argument" increases chances of suicide as a result of further increasing feelings of isolation, shame, etc rather than reducing it typically according to experts on the matter. It also makes it less likely a suicidal family member would open up to you. Ie if I was a family member feeling suicidal and I know you thought suicidal people were selfish etc why would I possibly tell you I was suicidal?

The fact is we know scientific literature overwhelmingly supports life is not as good most people think it is, death is set equal to tragic mostly due to stigma,(almost always regardless of what the person believes death is) ,suicide is the most stigmatized issue in society and use to be seen as respectable, we also know we have innate desire to survive. Due to these all bias etc it's painfully obvious, why most people do not view this topic objectively or rationally. To claim the average people views this rationally is simply absurd.
 
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typx

Specialist
May 4, 2018
384
1,386
Those that never have to deal with feeling like this and coming up against a desire to end it can't really understand it. I don't think people are selfish or being heartless for not wanting someone to CTB. But I also don't think a person is selfish or cowardly for taking their own life. Between those that want to live and those that want to die there is an incredible gulf that is impossible to cross. You have two groups that are antithetical to each other. They aren't speaking the same language anymore.

Everything in a living creature is to strive for life no matter what. To fight for life in all circumstances. And for the most part, this seems to be true. So to step outside and desire something that is completely opposed to 'how things are supposed to be'... it is confusing and upsetting and maybe impossible to understand for anyone that isn't there.
 
M

MAIO

Enlightened
Apr 8, 2018
802
2,402
Those that never have to deal with feeling like this and coming up against a desire to end it can't really understand it. I don't think people are selfish or being heartless for not wanting someone to CTB. But I also don't think a person is selfish or cowardly for taking their own life. Between those that want to live and those that want to die there is an incredible gulf that is impossible to cross. You have two groups that are antithetical to each other. They aren't speaking the same language anymore.

Everything in a living creature is to strive for life no matter what. To fight for life in all circumstances. And for the most part, this seems to be true. So to step outside and desire something that is completely opposed to 'how things are supposed to be'... it is confusing and upsetting and maybe impossible to understand for anyone that isn't there.
It depends what you mean by selfish. Technically every action is selfish so it really utterly loses meaning. Saying suicide is cowardly does not even make sense. It's the same saying you are cowardly because doing a quick sprint takes much less effort than running a marathon! "As I layed there in my car with the gases coming in I realized I could not go through with it. So I vowed never to take the cowards way out again." You see the irony? It easier not to go through with the act of CTB than to go through with the act of CTB. The largest issue is stigmatism as we know in other culture suicide was seen as respectable like Rome for instance.
 
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typx

Specialist
May 4, 2018
384
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I guess it's too bad you weren't born in Rome. :-)
 
M

MAIO

Enlightened
Apr 8, 2018
802
2,402
They don't like people having what they can't. They have resigned themselves to accepting whatever shit life heaps on them so, of course, everyone else has to do the same. It's just a mob mentality. Be part of the borg or we'll insult you, proclaim authority over you, ostracize you, disrespect you, lock you up, and pump you full of drugs. When I think of it, it's not that different from abuse.

That said, there are some suicidal people who are truly off their rockers. Like paranoid types who think the mob is after them or some shit. They do need legit help. But even then, if therapy is tried and they don't get any better within a reasonable time, and still want to die they should have the right.
I feel if you are going to claim people need to choose life you should have to prove life is inheritantly superior to choosing death or atleast in what scenarios it is.
 
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C

Caerula

Veteran
Mar 20, 2018
145
463
I do actually think I am selfish for not wanting to exist. I feel the need to stop my pain even though doing so will cause pain to others. But I've came to accept the fact that we must act selfishly sometimes to be who we are. No matter what we do we can never make everyone happy.

It is ironic that those who say suicide is selfish never considered the nature of their criticism...refusing to believe our suffering is valid...I guess for them only what they experience is relevant...
 
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Sonnenblume

Sonnenblume

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Apr 6, 2018
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I feel if you are going to claim people need to choose life you should have to prove life is inheritantly superior to choosing death or atleast in what scenarios it is.
Thats what I said over on the age requirement thread and people are all horrified by it. The real horror is people suffering needlessly.
 
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M

millefeui

-
Mar 31, 2018
1,037
5,298
Everyone is selfish. Whether they want to live or die doesn't change anything.

I don't believe I am selfish for wanting to die. Fuck that. There is nothing to be proud about when it comes to suffering. There is no medal at the end of the road, there is no end game. If I am selfish for wanting to die, the people who wants me and other suicidal people to suffer for decades, because of their own stupid agendas are no different. They are about as selfish if not more.

I am not going to live just so some people's pathetically idealistic views of the world aren't crushed.
 
Fylobatica

Fylobatica

Inactive
Apr 1, 2018
368
1,295
At the end of the day, people almost always claim to live for 'others'. Well, looks like a good self-referential joke.

Really, the only things that's selfish is that humanity keeps on existing despite the enormous costs it implies.
 
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Sonnenblume

Sonnenblume

Sunflower Panda
Apr 6, 2018
588
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Everyone is selfish. Whether they want to live or die doesn't change anything.

I don't believe I am selfish for wanting to die. Fuck that. There is nothing to be proud about when it comes to suffering. There is no medal at the end of the road, there is no end game. If I am selfish for wanting to die, the people who wants me and other suicidal people to suffer for decades, because of their own stupid agendas are no different. They are about as selfish if not more.

I am not going to live just so some people's pathetically idealistic views of the world aren't crushed.
Exactly, one dumbass expected me to live for her. She got the boot out of my life damn quick. I'm not living for the sake of other people's ignorance, fuck that.
 
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