[Discussion] There's a dark underbelly to this place

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Mm80

Mm80

Specialist
May 15, 2019
357
424
How come I see people talk about pro-lifers being in this forum in addition to “sick fuckers” but I never notice any of these people?

I mean I’m not saying you’re wrong, but I just never notice these kinds of people making posts.

Does my autism make me even more naive and trusting of people than I am aware of?

I wonder if there’s some kind of condition for people that makes it hard for them to judge the character/intentions of other people. Because I don’t think I’m the greatest judge of character, I pretty much just assume most people are good, smarter, and better than me.

Also if this place makes you feel gross you can take a break for a while. Sometimes I go like a week or so without going on this website, no particular reason for me besides sometimes I feel like talking on here and sometimes I just don’t.



What exactly do bad people want to do to their “partners”?
Im autistic and wondering the same thing as to what i am missing? The bliss that can come with being autistic,if anyone can explain specifically what to look out for id be thankful. As good person effed implied the partners thing may leave people vulnerable as it requires someone to reveal their true identity to someone they dont really know. That person may not have their best interests at heart and want to take advantage of a vulmerable person.
 
LastRide

LastRide

Specialist
Jan 23, 2020
328
398
Have you ever been on other so-called “normal” social media? Le me tell you it’s far worse....you can justb leave a nice comment and you’ll get 200.000 replies saying you’re a bitch and you don’t know what you’re talking about....this SS forum is a baby wrap in comparison ! Don’t complain !
 
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GoodPersonEffed

GoodPersonEffed

Ain't it all just ridiculous?
Jan 11, 2020
3,473
6,771
Im autistic and wondering the same thing as to what i am missing? The bliss that can come with being autistic,if anyone can explain specifically what to look out for id be thankful. As good person effed implied the partners thing may leave people vulnerable as it requires someone to reveal their true identity to someone they dont really know. That person may not have their best interests at heart and want to take advantage of a vulmerable person.

For both @Mm80 and @waterbottleman

See this thread:


To address your questions as best as I can...

You noted vulnerability. Someone who manipulates wants something from someone else, and they are going to pay attention to that person's vulnerabilities: what they need, what they desire, what they believe and/or want to believe, are they desperate, and the things mentioned in comment five of the linked thread.

Someone who consciously manipulates is often going to test for green lights. That means they're going to push the target's boundaries a little bit, do something to make them uncomfortable, and see if that person will overcome their discomfort and dismiss the red flags raised. They will do this based on any of their vulnerabilities, such as a need for love, affection, protection, money, a ctb method or partner, or something like having a tendency to trust people first rather than reserving trust until it is earned. A green light means they are willing to lower their boundaries/self-protection and suspend their disbelief to the manipulator's advantage.

Another way to look for manipulation, as well as vulnerability, is to see how people respond to criticism or questioning. The vulnerable person will back down, doubt themselves, give more weight and value to others' opinions of them and their actions rather than trust themselves -- they cede control or power to the other. Someone who manipulates, however, will often react to criticism or questioning by attempting to gain control over the situation and over the other person. The first post in the linked thread lists a variety of the most common tactics to accomplish this. Ultimately, what they do is try to define or redefine reality for the other person, which when accepted, gives the manipulator increasing power over that person. If one can define reality for another, they can control them. Finally, the confident and assertive person will maintain their sense of self and reality when they are criticized, questioned, or have a manipulation tactic used against them. They are willing to consider other points of view, they are willing to concede when they are in error, they are able to remain skeptical when they aren't convinced, they define themselves and their own experiences, and they allow others to define themselves and their own experiences.

You can observe conversations in threads using the link and these criteria to learn how people are functioning socially. Many people will alternate among these three types, but often a dominant type will emerge. One's character is based on consistent actions and behaviors, and it usually doesn't take long to figure out; the challenge is to not override the evidence and believe something different about a person other than what their actions demonstrate. A conscious, predatory manipulator observes as well, but they are watching for weaknesses to take advantage of in order to have the power to take something from another without their permission. They may even refuse something that is freely offered, then later take it when it is not on offer. They may start out agreeing with everything you say and gushing about how wonderful you are (called love-bombing), then suddenly switch and start blaming, negating, and denying. If the victim is confused and does not break contact when this extreme behavior appears, the manipulator uses this confusion to maintain and increase their control, and will increasingly define the victim and their reality.

All of this is about power and boundaries.

The manipulator wants power over others; the vulnerable person is powerless, doubts themselves, and/or cedes power over them to others; and the assertive/confident person is aware of and maintains their own power, and allows and/or encourages others to have their own power.

The manipulator blurs and overrides boundaries; the vulnerable person does not know how to recognize, protect and/or own their boundaries; and the assertive/confident person is aware of their own and others' boundaries, protects and maintains their own boundaries, and respects others' boundaries (a manipulative/controlling person hates that and may view that person as a threat or a challenge, they may avoid that person or they may try to overpower them).

Please let me know if this doesn't make sense. It's a complex subject, but I may not have stated it simply or clearly enough. Bottom line, if you have a propensity to make things linear or categorize, you can use the tools I'm this comment and in the link to observe social situations like threads to learn to detect who you personally are vulnerable to, who are the people who seek power over others, who to avoid, and who demonstrates they may be safe and worthy of your trust, that is, who you can reasonably be vulnerable enough to increasingly relax with because your boundaries are recognized, respected, and safe with them.
 
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Mm80

Mm80

Specialist
May 15, 2019
357
424
For both @Mm80 and @waterbottleman

See this thread:


To address your questions as best as I can...

You noted vulnerability. Someone who manipulates wants something from someone else, and they are going to pay attention to that person's vulnerabilities: what they need, what they desire, what they believe and/or want to believe, are they desperate, and the things mentioned in comment five of the linked thread.

Someone who consciously manipulates is often going to test for green lights. That means they're going to push the target's boundaries a little bit, do something to make them uncomfortable, and see if that person will overcome their discomfort and dismiss the red flags raised. They will do this based on any of their vulnerabilities, such as a need for love, affection, protection, money, a ctb method or partner, or something like having a tendency to trust people first rather than reserving trust until it is earned. A green light means they are willing to lower their boundaries/self-protection and suspend their disbelief to the manipulator's advantage.

Another way to look for manipulation, as well as vulnerability, is to see how people respond to criticism or questioning. The vulnerable person will back down, doubt themselves, give more weight and value to others' opinions of them and their actions rather than trust themselves -- they cede control or power to the other. Someone who manipulates, however, will often react to criticism or questioning by attempting to gain control over the situation and over the other person. The first post in the linked thread lists a variety of the most common tactics to accomplish this. Ultimately, what they do is try to define or redefine reality for the other person, which when accepted, gives the manipulator increasing power over that person. If one can define reality for another, they can control them. Finally, the confident and assertive person will maintain their sense of self and reality when they are criticized, questioned, or have a manipulation tactic used against them. They are willing to consider other points of view, they are willing to concede when they are in error, they are able to remain skeptical when they aren't convinced, they define themselves and their own experiences, and they allow others to define themselves and their own experiences.

You can observe conversations in threads using the link and these criteria to learn how people are functioning socially. Many people will alternate among these three types, but often a dominant type will emerge. One's character is based on consistent actions and behaviors, and it usually doesn't take long to figure out; the challenge is to not override the evidence and believe something different about a person other than what their actions demonstrate. A conscious, predatory manipulator observes as well, but they are watching for weaknesses to take advantage of in order to have the power to take something from another without their permission. They may even refuse something that is freely offered, then later take it when it is not on offer. They may start out agreeing with everything you say and gushing about how wonderful you are (called love-bombing), then suddenly switch and start blaming, negating, and denying. If the victim is confused and does not break contact when this extreme behavior appears, the manipulator uses this confusion to maintain and increase their control, and will increasingly define the victim and their reality.

All of this is about power and boundaries.

The manipulator wants power over others; the vulnerable person is powerless, doubts themselves, and/or cedes power over them to others; and the assertive/confident person is aware of and maintains their own power, and allows and/or encourages others to have their own power.

The manipulator blurs and overrides boundaries; the vulnerable person does not know how to recognize, protect and/or own their boundaries; and the assertive/confident person is aware of their own and others' boundaries, protects and maintains their own boundaries, and respects others' boundaries (a manipulative/controlling person hates that and may view that person as a threat or a challenge, they may avoid that person or they may try to overpower them).

Please let me know if this doesn't make sense. It's a complex subject, but I may not have stated it simply or clearly enough. Bottom line, if you have a propensity to make things linear or categorize, you can use the tools I'm this comment and in the link to observe social situations like threads to learn to detect who you personally are vulnerable to, who are the people who seek power over others, who to avoid, and who demonstrates they may be safe and worthy of your trust, that is, who you can reasonably be vulnerable enough to increasingly relax with because your boundaries are recognized, respected, and safe with them.
Thanks very much for taking the time out to explain, much appreciated. You know your stuff! I can't see you getting manipulated any time soon lol!
 
Epsilon0

Epsilon0

Illuminated
Dec 28, 2019
1,770
3,653
@GoodPersonEffed

”The manipulator wants power over others; the vulnerable person is powerless, doubts themselves, and/or cedes power over them to others; and the assertive/confident person is aware of and maintains their own power, and allows and/or encourages others to have their own power.”


Very well explained!
 
thebrinkimdriven

thebrinkimdriven

Wise
Feb 11, 2020
264
911
I think some of the underbelly would be lightened if there weren't a partners thread.
I agree and also think that would be the case if we raised the minimum age requirement of membership (maybe 25?) I appreciate it's virtually impossible to implement, but that's beside the point. It doesn't matter what my opinion is on age and suicide, although I understand that makes me sound like a massive hypocrite as I'm not much older than 25 myself.

I don't mean to invalidate younger members' feelings or the reasons they're considering CTB, but feel it would be healthier for many reasons.
 
Underscore

Underscore

Moebius Potato
Jul 31, 2018
3,905
7,678
In response to the title/OP, and to @Mr2005:


I think some of the underbelly would be lightened if there weren't a partners thread.
I also agree with that. I'm not saying it should be removed, but it would certainly deprive the sharks of a pool to swim in and a dinner table full of tasty treats for them to potentially snack on.
 
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HelensNepenthe

HelensNepenthe

Thoughtful poster
Jan 17, 2019
762
2,417
I had just made a recent post on someone’s behavior yesterday.
After this most recent post that is pinned in 'Suicide Discussion' I really think this is a time for staff to unify their opinions on the partners thread, while also taking community feedback. I am in full support of disbanding it. Users' privacy, perhaps the long term consequences of having it in the first place, and the amount of people who infilitrate the forum looking for prey. It's Craigslist ads meets suicidal people who are most likely window shopping. Yet victims will be bit.
 
GoodPersonEffed

GoodPersonEffed

Ain't it all just ridiculous?
Jan 11, 2020
3,473
6,771
After this most recent post that is pinned in 'Suicide Discussion' I really think this is a time for staff to unify their opinions on the partners thread, while also taking community feedback. I am in full support of disbanding it.
I agree. Yet staff has historically shut down community feedback and barely if at all engaged. The pinned thread you linked? Closed for comments on the third page. The pinned scams thread? Closed for comments. Feedback forum? Extremely rare responses from staff, threads often locked, and now that forum is completely gone. I could come up with so many more examples.

Constructive criticism by the community, and for the well-being of the community, is overwhelmingly ignored, closed for further comment, and/or deleted.

Damn right there's a dark underbelly. But when it's the only place to go, people are willing to put up with or overlook a lot of shit to try to get their needs met.

The Partners Megathread is full of sick, dangerous shit. I know it was taken down in the past and reinstated, but since the site search is down, I can't research to know the whole story, or at least what of the story wasn't deleted.
 
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waived

waived

above average
Jan 5, 2019
596
2,018
What is the desired outcome of this thread?
How are the mods vetted?
 
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Soul

Soul

gate gate paragate parasamgate bodhi svaha
Apr 12, 2019
3,619
7,533
If the Partners thread were accessible only to members with a number of posts (say 15?) and several days of activity on the forum, that might slow down the most egregious window-shoppers without depriving sincere users.

I don't remember exactly when the Partners thread was suspended - during one of the "high publicity" phases following a forum death. I was surprised how many people were upset and asking for it to be reopened.
 
thebrinkimdriven

thebrinkimdriven

Wise
Feb 11, 2020
264
911
I agree. Yet staff has historically shut down community feedback and barely if at all engaged. The pinned thread you linked? Closed for comments on the third page. The pinned scams thread? Closed for comments. Feedback forum? Extremely rare responses from staff, threads often locked, and now that forum is completely gone. I could come up with so many more examples.

Constructive criticism by the community, and for the well-being of the community, is overwhelmingly ignored, closed for further comment, and/or deleted.
As @deadpixels stated and as I've posted elsewhere, it's also worrying that the site may have collaborated with the authorities to obtain members' information. While it's understandable in the morbid case of concern, I think we need an official response about our privacy. Is it the case that under no circumstances does the site respond to requests for information? Or if the site owners/moderators did indeed collaborate on this occasion, is it only in certain circumstances that this happens?
 
O

oopswronglife

Enlightened
Jun 27, 2019
873
2,678
As @deadpixels stated and as I've posted elsewhere, it's also worrying that the site may have collaborated with the authorities to obtain members' information. While it's understandable in the morbid case of concern, I think we need an official response about our privacy. Is it the case that under no circumstances does the site respond to requests for information? Or if the site owners/moderators did indeed collaborate on this occasion, is it only in certain circumstances that this happens?
It's a stressful thing because you cannot sign up anonymously. They don't accept Tor or VPNs for initial sign up. Ostensibly this is to prevent abusers making a ton of accounts and for iron fist moderating, but it also means its POSSIBLE for admins to expose you. That makes me very uncomfortable, but like most people here my distress and life override that enough that I live with it. The admins run some other controversial stuff so I don't THINK they are the sorts to give in to authorities, and have already had to change hosting because companies refused to serve the site, but since we aren't allowed to be entirely anonymous it leaves a shred of doubt. There have been some real psychos and damaging people on the site over the years so it also puts them in an awkward situation of having to balance user safety with anonymity. Personally I wish the site was far more private and hidden...onion and membership only with no clearnet and non-logged in viewing...and even thats not bulletproof, but would be better than things being so accessible.