[Discussion] Suicide Is not Selfish

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l0sing

l0sing

the will
Feb 12, 2020
27
46
That may be true in some cases, but in other cases I don’t think that is true.

As sad as it is to say, some people in this world really won’t be missed when they ctb even though they’re good well intentioned people and I’m an individual in this group.

I‘ve never really been liked by people very much, no one loves me, no one cares about me. No one even really notices that I exist. No friends, no girlfriend in 12 years.

My feelings of being unliked, undesired, unwanted, and unnoticed don’t merely stem from a false/subjective perception due to depression or low self esteem. It is an empirical reality for me. My feelings come from an objective look on myself and the reality of how people perceive me, or more accurately I should say dont perceive me since I’m pretty much a living ghost.
I totally get what you’re saying and fully understand your stance but at the same time we can’t speak for others. It’s a constant battle of not feeling wanted because of how you look at others actions towards you. Personally for me I feel this way a lot but then have people argue to me that they do care for me, but, I just don’t feel it no matter what. I know myself how I feel, but I also know how other people close to me feel the same and no matter how much I tell them I’d miss them and they do matter to me, they don’t believe me, but then I look at it as ‘but I do the same, you tell me that and I don’t believe you’ it’s just how mental health effects the brain.
We can't get past the fact that it's an active decision to bring a child into this world and that it can't be taken lightly. However, I should have mentioned that I think that there are a few exceptions. Most notably, a parent who is terminally ill can save both themselves and their children much suffering by ending their lives prematurely, and their children will most probably understand and accept their decision.
except they then leave the financial burden on the children because life insurers won’t pay out for suicide, hence the selfishness
 
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Soulless_Angel

Soulless_Angel

self destruct activated
Jul 10, 2019
1,066
1,897
Well, you don't need to defend yourself or your actions, at lest not to me. I just stated my opinion and it wasn't directed toward you specifically. You added a personal dimension, and that's fine, but that was your choice, not mine.

that's fine, im on the rum and happy to chat more!! You say its selfish to want to CTB when a parent, so you are saying I have to live with torture, constant flashbacks, pain and hell and more every day, to ensure my children are put first
 
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Oyoy

Oyoy

Sisyphus
Feb 2, 2020
149
237
Reproducing is selfish.
that's fine, im on the rum and happy to chat more!! You say its selfish to want to CTB when a parent, so you are saying I have to live with torture, constant flashbacks, pain and hell and more every day, to ensure my children are put first
Pretty much! What if your kid wanted to ctb?
 
Soulless_Angel

Soulless_Angel

self destruct activated
Jul 10, 2019
1,066
1,897
Pretty much! What if your kid wanted to ctb?
My child has not gone through the abuse I have been through, my children do not have the memories I have, my children have a father and grandparents who are stable, secure with a history of strength as a family and so forth, Currently i do not see a path for them to land on like I have, their beginning is so different to mine
 
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Oyoy

Oyoy

Sisyphus
Feb 2, 2020
149
237
My child has not gone through the abuse I have been through, my children do not have the memories I have, my children have a father and grandparents who are stable, secure with a history of strength as a family and so forth, Currently i do not see a path for them to land on like I have, their beginning is so different to mine
It would change if you left especially like ctb.
 
Soulless_Angel

Soulless_Angel

self destruct activated
Jul 10, 2019
1,066
1,897
It would change if you left especially like ctb.

So again I have to sit here suffering panic attacks often, in pain mentally, tortured by my past, tortured by my future, unable to control my reactions to any given situation, accepting everyone else has control of my life as its purely to ensure that others are happy regardless of my needs/wants and so forth, never having a say in anything I do for fear of upsetting others, sitting within 4 walls with no moving forward, unable to get a normal job, but the hope of the self employment is now nothing but a past memory due to ensuring others before myself, and so on
I have to sit here understanding my children are at risk of serious emotional abuse (as stated by professionals) because to do what I want is selfish, as in daily choices right down to everything little fucking aspect in life

So at this point my life is no longer my own, to ensure I am not selfish I have to give up everything in life, everything to ensure others feel safe and secure,

OK< well fine, Im a selfish c*nt and proud, and sit here with suicidal ideation with no fear,
 
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Oyoy

Oyoy

Sisyphus
Feb 2, 2020
149
237
So again I have to sit here suffering panic attacks often, in pain mentally, tortured by my past, tortured by my future, unable to control my reactions to any given situation, accepting everyone else has control of my life as its purely to ensure that others are happy regardless of my needs/wants and so forth, never having a say in anything I do for fear of upsetting others, sitting within 4 walls with no moving forward, unable to get a normal job, but the hope of the self employment is now nothing but a past memory due to ensuring others before myself, and so on
I have to sit here understanding my children are at risk of serious emotional abuse (as stated by professionals) because to do what I want is selfish, as in daily choices right down to everything little fucking aspect in life

So at this point my life is no longer my own, to ensure I am not selfish I have to give up everything in life, everything to ensure others feel safe and secure,

OK< well fine, Im a selfish c*nt and proud, and sit here with suicidal ideation with no fear,
You sure write well. Write them a children's book about living through tragedy and having them to watch become good people is what gives you purpous.
 
Soulless_Angel

Soulless_Angel

self destruct activated
Jul 10, 2019
1,066
1,897
You sure write well. Write them a children's book about living through tragedy and having them to watch become good people is what gives you purpous.
I blog, I tell my story via my blog, they will one day have this link, A link I have already shared on here, happy to share again...
 
L

Life sucks

Illuminated
Apr 18, 2018
1,168
3,999
My child has not gone through the abuse I have been through, my children do not have the memories I have, my children have a father and grandparents who are stable, secure with a history of strength as a family and so forth, Currently i do not see a path for them to land on like I have, their beginning is so different to mine
Nobody should force you to live just because you are a parent. People should be pro-choice for everyone. The question of whether its selfish is superficial. If one's pain is unbearable, everyone should understand.
 
Sensei

Sensei

Illuminated
Nov 4, 2019
1,161
2,223
that's fine, im on the rum and happy to chat more!! You say its selfish to want to CTB when a parent, so you are saying I have to live with torture, constant flashbacks, pain and hell and more every day, to ensure my children are put first
First of all, you're not the only one suffering here. We're all here for different reasons, but we have one thing in common, and that is that our pain is so difficult to bear that we consider shooting ourselves in the head, throwing ourselves in front of a train, poison our own bodies with chemicals, and what have you. I can tell that you suffer immensely and that you have to fight to stay alive every day. Maybe you won't make it, I don't know, but you must try and try and try until you have exhausted all thinkable and unthinkable options before you decide to leave your children behind. Get a new psychotherapeut, try a new medicine, exercise, meditate, try alternative medicines, everything you can think of. I think you owe your children that. That's my two cents.
 
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Chaoticbpd

Chaoticbpd

Member
Feb 11, 2020
13
19
I am so glad somebody said this. Why isn’t it considered selfish for you to ask me to stay alive for your benefit and not mine? I am alive today not for myself but because I don’t want to hurt my mother I literally force myself to live every day but I’m the selfish one ?
 
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Soulless_Angel

Soulless_Angel

self destruct activated
Jul 10, 2019
1,066
1,897
First of all, you're not the only one suffering here. We're all here for different reasons, but we have one thing in common, and that is that our pain is so difficult to bear that we consider shooting ourselves in the head, throwing ourselves in front of a train, poison our own bodies with chemicals, and what have you. I can tell that you suffer immensely and that you have to fight to stay alive every day. Maybe you won't make it, I don't know, but you must try and try and try until you have exhausted all thinkable and unthinkable options before you decide to leave your children behind. Get a new psychotherapeut, try a new medicine, exercise, meditate, try alternative medicines, everything you can think of. I think you owe your children that. That's my two cents.
I understand that I am not alone, I have spoken to a few parents in PM,
For me personally therapy is not an option, nor is medication, I am back in my black place, I fee safe here, where it takes me, whether I am a parent or not, no one has the right to judge me, or call me selfish, actually call me the latter, I have gone beyond caring on that side!!!
Nobody should force you to live just because you are a parent. People should be pro-choice for everyone. The question of whether its selfish is superficial. If one's pain is unbearable, everyone should understand.
its two worlds, one of being selfish as a parent and putting oneself first, then there is no longer considering yourself as a independent human being and you resign all your rights to another, no longer having a say in how you live your life, this to me is no longer living, but pure existence at the happiness of others with no care for your own well being
Both are selfish, both are a bad place to be in, one has a end, the other has an end but only after days, months, months, years of putting yourself to the bins to ensure others are happier then you will ever be, but thank you for the words.
 
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Oyoy

Oyoy

Sisyphus
Feb 2, 2020
149
237
Maybe it's human sacrafic. Maybe it's selfless.
 
Soulless_Angel

Soulless_Angel

self destruct activated
Jul 10, 2019
1,066
1,897
Maybe it's human sacrafic. Maybe it's selfless.
Suicide, Neither selfish nor non selfish,
Suicide a answer to one's dealings with life,
There should be no judgement, just understanding of their life leading to the point of them choosing to hit the full stop button, seeing as the reset button doesn't exist!
 
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Sensei

Sensei

Illuminated
Nov 4, 2019
1,161
2,223
I understand that I am not alone, I have spoken to a few parents in PM,
For me personally therapy is not an option, nor is medication, I am back in my black place, I fee safe here, where it takes me, whether I am a parent or not, no one has the right to judge me, or call me selfish, actually call me the latter, I have gone beyond caring on that side!!!
You're not a selfish bitch, as you put it. I know this, because you're still here and you're still fighting. You could have killed yourself a long time ago.
 
T

thecountdown

Member
Feb 13, 2020
15
40
Hey guys,

Am i the only one who believe Suicide isn't selfish?

You are your own person, who controls your own actions. If you're not happy in your life which you didn't choose to be put into, that is not selfish if you want to leave your life. If it is selfish to ctb, isn't it selfish for some to command you to stay alive?

Don't get me wrong, I understand that ctb hurts other people's feelings, but we are hurting too, and if you have tried everything to fix that, I would say you're entitled to ctb.

I personally tell myself that I am selfish to ctb, but only for the benefit of others. I hate hurting people, and I know my girlfriend needs me and my family. That's why I am still here.

But overall, suicide is not selfish. if you want to end your own, that is not selfish to me.
My thought is that there could be nothing less selfish than suicide. The way you see a body instinctively struggling to survive even though that person truly wants to die attends that it isn't "good" for the self.
 
thrw_a_way1221221

thrw_a_way1221221

Angel of Choice - time is getting closer...
Aug 30, 2018
3,799
12,508
I don't think it is selfish (except for maybe a few cases if any). I believe it is selfish for others to wish the suicidal to stay alive against their will just because when the suicidal passes, it would sadden the survivors and non-suicidal people.

As for suicide being selfish, I could see the claim that if someone has a child (biologically or adopted), then in a sense, it would be selfish for the parent to CTB when the child is still dependent on the parent for support (financial, social, emotional, etc.).

Other than that, I believe in full bodily autonomy and that suicide is the ultimate freedom against a cruel and unfair world.
 
HannahB

HannahB

Death is the true name of time.
Oct 29, 2019
189
553
Personally I believe everything we do is for self and that's not a bad thing. All of the universe is self every rock, every tree, every person, is you, aka the universe. If you want to die that's ok, you dont have to play any game you dont want to.
 
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AllorNothing

AllorNothing

Member
Feb 12, 2020
12
29
Hey guys,

Am i the only one who believe Suicide isn't selfish?

You are your own person, who controls your own actions. If you're not happy in your life which you didn't choose to be put into, that is not selfish if you want to leave your life. If it is selfish to ctb, isn't it selfish for some to command you to stay alive?

Don't get me wrong, I understand that ctb hurts other people's feelings, but we are hurting too, and if you have tried everything to fix that, I would say you're entitled to ctb.

I personally tell myself that I am selfish to ctb, but only for the benefit of others. I hate hurting people, and I know my girlfriend needs me and my family. That's why I am still here.

But overall, suicide is not selfish. if you want to end your own, that is not selfish to me.
I would have to disagree. I am a pretty blunt person so please don't feel like I'm trying to tear down your perspective or anything. Yes it selfish for others to want for you to be alive, but like wise it is also selfish to want to CTB. It's the other side of the same coin

My belief is that suicide is one of the most selfish things you can do. Here's the thing, when you CTB you're not going to suffer the consequences of that, you're not going to miss you're life, everyone else is. When a suicide bomber detonates him/her self in the middle of a crowd, the people closest to them get obliterated. What's left is a perfect circle of destruction right where that person used to be. The emotional equivalent to that is what happens when someone CTB (someone with people who care about them and aren't on board with their decision)

However, in spite of that, I still choose to CTB and accepting that has helped me be at peace with my decision.
 
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A

aramir

Member
Dec 13, 2019
49
109
I would have to disagree. I am a pretty blunt person so please don't feel like I'm trying to tear down your perspective or anything. Yes it selfish for others to want for you to be alive, but like wise it is also selfish to want to CTB. It's the other side of the same coin

My belief is that suicide is one of the most selfish things you can do. Here's the thing, when you CTB you're not going to suffer the consequences of that, you're not going to miss you're life, everyone else is. When a suicide bomber detonates him/her self in the middle of a crowd, the people closest to them get obliterated. What's left is a perfect circle of destruction right where that person used to be. The emotional equivalent to that is what happens when someone CTB (someone with people who care about them and aren't on board with their decision)

However, in spite of that, I still choose to CTB and accepting that has helped me be at peace with my decision.
sorry but that line of thinking makes nearly 0 sense , no one has a claim over another's life simply because they're close to them , yes it will feel bad when someone you know commits suicide , but the suffering the person who died went through is most likely much worse than whatever the people around them will feel. there is also the fact that most of people's suffering and pain goes ignored by society until they CTB . I will lose my mind if someone even suggests that suicide hotlines are even an option.

what a cruel way of thinking to just close your ears and eyes and command everyone who is born to continue living no matter the circumstance. have your finances been ruined and homelessness and humiliation is looming ? keep suffering !. is your childhood trauma eating away at you every day ? Keep suffering ! . is your social ineptness making you incapable of connecting/interacting with people and you can't bear to continue living every day ? Keep suffering !. can you no longer derive joy from the world and all you can do is wait and count time for each hour to pass ? Keep suffering!

When someone finally chooses to get a taste of peace and end it , now we're selfish ? well excuse me for not shambling through this hell just so you don't have to face the reality that people are in unthinkable misery , excuse me for ruining your fantasy .

CTB is not selfish for the same reason it is not selfish that a starving person needs to find food for themselves before they start looking for a ring to gift someone.

I'm not even going to go into your suicide bomber analogy since it has no merit.

"I am a pretty blunt person so please don't feel like I'm trying to tear down your perspective or anything."
 
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WhiteDespair

WhiteDespair

The Temporary Problem is Life
Oct 24, 2019
565
788
It's selfish to CtB. It's selfish to want others not to CtB. Both are selfish.

Whether one selfish outweighs the other selfish is the true question.
 
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Diver_K_A

Diver_K_A

Member
Jan 30, 2020
77
91
Of course it is not selfish. They didn’t ask you if you want to be on this plane of existence however you have been given a choice to exit or not. That’s your card you can use it if you want to.
We are contagions
Loved your comment. Summed it up perfectly.
 
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W

Whem

Member
Feb 12, 2020
6
1
I think it depends which side you are on, I think someone who has never felt this way may see it as selfish.
For me I feel more selfish by making things so hard for those around me. It's not fair to keep worrying them over and over. I will be setting them free.
 
Diver_K_A

Diver_K_A

Member
Jan 30, 2020
77
91
Absolutely right. Suicide is not selfish at all, the forum is full of people regretting thei'r choice and thinking about parents instead of thinking about thei'r wishes. Suicide is going out with dignity when you discover you don't fit this world.
You are the new prophet and what you wrote is the best verse I have ever read.
 
G

Green Destiny

We will fade.
Nov 17, 2019
144
192
Every human being has the right to live, yet they're not allowed to also possess the right to die when they so choose? It's BS man. Suicide is not selfish, it's even more selfish to force people to keep living a life they did not consent or ask for.
 
Pricelessadvice

Pricelessadvice

What becomes of the broken-hearted
Jul 30, 2019
18
25
I am glad to hear everyone's perspective on this. I remain here out of concern for what my ctb'ing would do to my mom. I'm seriously afraid it would devastate her. Ruin the rest of her time. (But I could be wrong?) Idk The thing is, one more ugly shit ball that life throws at me and I am the one devastated. So, I don't know how much more I can hold on. Really.
My 2 dogs are my heart. I have set up a trust for them. They will not wind up in a shelter, at least.

In the end personal autonomy wins out over it all I think.
 
AllorNothing

AllorNothing

Member
Feb 12, 2020
12
29
sorry but that line of thinking makes nearly 0 sense , no one has a claim over another's life simply because they're close to them , yes it will feel bad when someone you know commits suicide , but the suffering the person who died went through is most likely much worse than whatever the people around them will feel. there is also the fact that most of people's suffering and pain goes ignored by society until they CTB . I will lose my mind if someone even suggests that suicide hotlines are even an option.

what a cruel way of thinking to just close your ears and eyes and command everyone who is born to continue living no matter the circumstance. have your finances been ruined and homelessness and humiliation is looming ? keep suffering !. is your childhood trauma eating away at you every day ? Keep suffering ! . is your social ineptness making you incapable of connecting/interacting with people and you can't bear to continue living every day ? Keep suffering !. can you no longer derive joy from the world and all you can do is wait and count time for each hour to pass ? Keep suffering!

When someone finally chooses to get a taste of peace and end it , now we're selfish ? well excuse me for not shambling through this hell just so you don't have to face the reality that people are in unthinkable misery , excuse me for ruining your fantasy .

CTB is not selfish for the same reason it is not selfish that a starving person needs to find food for themselves before they start looking for a ring to gift someone.

I'm not even going to go into your suicide bomber analogy since it has no merit.

"I am a pretty blunt person so please don't feel like I'm trying to tear down your perspective or anything."
Obviously I disagree with your perspective. Finding food because you're staving or water because you're thirsty doesn't hurt anybody. You conceded that it feels bad when someone you know CTB.You're misrepresenting my argument. No where did I implies that other people have a claim on your life or that you SHOULD keep suffering.

I don't understand how what I said make 0 sense. Almost all of what I stated is a fact,
"when you CTB you're not going to suffer the consequences of that, you're not going to miss you're life, everyone else is."
"When a suicide bomber detonates him/her self in the middle of a crowd, the people closest to them get obliterated."
"The emotional equivalent to that is what happens when someone CTB (someone with people who care about them and aren't on board with their decision)" -- simple reasoning proves that statement to be fact. The further out you go from your inner circle of relationship the less connection you have with those people and the less they will be affected by your death. I don't get how that has no merit.

The only normative statement I made is when I said that suicide is one of the most selfish things that you can do and I already admitted that that is my personal belief.

Listen, a lot of things we do are selfish, even when they're for the best intention. There nothing inherently wrong with selfishness, the world has too much shades of gray for that to be true. But we shouldn't let our passion obfuscate our logical understanding of reality.
 
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Amber1974

Amber1974

Veteran
Dec 9, 2018
149
637
Staying alive for our family members when we would rather just ctb is pure Unselfishness. Who decides how much suffering is enough? Family? They know the hell I live in, actually they dont even know how bad shit is, but only reason I stay is because of my mom, i say thats unselfish since I'm living for another person
 
Dripping

Dripping

Member
Nov 17, 2019
37
68
You are the new prophet and what you wrote is the best verse I have ever read.
Sadly I'm not. If you are intrested in my story i am a male, 34yo, I have a Ph.D. in Law, and I work as a lawyer but the firm I'm working in is only money oriented. I am emotionally dead. I don't find any girl to plan my life with, only merciless bitches intrested in money and/or power. once I had a girl, a 10 years story, we planned our marriage and I have bought a house for us unless i have discovered she was having sex with uknown married people meeted online (3 people at the time) and she decided to go and have her life this way. As an added bonus I have a rare genetic disease which provided me with 2 strokes and was only my strenght to survive that now i'm writing. As you can see all I can do is contemplate death and try to find the right moment to ctb. Please do not call me selfish, because if you do so you are completely brainless.
Peace.
 
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