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lostangel

lostangel

Visionary
Joined
Mar 22, 2019
Messages
965
I've reported it for false information because it's providing false information.

This site does not encourage suicide. Nothing is illegal on this site. Therefore we can't be taken down.
 
RainAndSadness

RainAndSadness

Staff
Joined
Jun 12, 2018
Messages
1,056
This site does encourage suicide. It does meet the definition of "encourage" from the dictionary below. Definitely providing information on methods make a person more likely to do it and more confident than if being ignorant.

- to make someone more likely to do something, or to make something more likely to happen
- to talk or behave in a way that gives someone confidence to do something

But then again, any movie or piece of new about suicide or any other controversial topic also encourages it by the definition.
I'll step in really quickly because this accusation doesn't just affect me but the forum as a whole. We don't "encourage" anything in this forum. We, as a community, provide resources and information about methods, sure - but what you do with that information is your business alone, nobody can make that final decision for you. Ending our life is our most personal, intimate decision that we could ever make in our life and making that decision - supported by many courts all over the world - is a fundamental legal right. I'd go even further and say that implementing that decision in the most peaceful way possible is a human right as well. Animals have a right to get euthanized peacefully, why shouldn't we grant the same rights to humans? That's why I think this forum is so necessary, if you're about to end your life, as sad as this decision might be, at least you get a chance to do it peacefully and with the least amount of pain and discomfort. I've seen so many threads in this forum bringing up irresponsible methods that inflict an intense amount of pain and discomfort, with the potential of permanent disabilities if done incorrectly and also risking third parties. I don't even want to know in what horrible ways people take their lives on a daily base but having a forum like this that at least guides people into a certain direction with methods, filtering out harmful ideas, isn't just beneficial in regards to harm reduction but even necessary in my opinion. There have been people in the past that wanted to set themselves on fire. That's when the community steps in and questions that decision.

And I can't stress it enough, nobody here tells you to go kill yourself because that's actually a strong violation of the rules, for obvious reasons. I strictly enforce that rule and so do all other moderators here in the forum, no doubts. This forum follows a "pro-choice" philosophy, that means we support the idea that you have the final say about the circumstances and time of your own death. In other words, we support the right for consenting adults to make informed decisions. We're not pro-death or pro-suicide, we've discussed posts containing such rhetorics internally in the past and I've acted against people that spread such harmful ideas as well. Also, there is a whole sub-forum just dedicated to recovery, in case you missed that. And I've seen many threads and posts talking about trying to get better, trying to improve, trying to live, somehow and that's 100% valid. I'm glad when people that find a way to continue their journey. I think that's a good thing... try to maximize pleasure and find a way to enjoy this life, if possible, considering it's probably the only one you have, right? I fully support that. Does that mean we are encouraging life now?

Also, you have to understand, not everyone in this forum is gonna ctb, that's another false narrative that is spread around way too often. There are a lot of members that managed to secure a method but never follow through with their initial plans to ctb, some even recover and give life another chance. I talked to so many people in this forum that secured a method simply to have some kind of "ejection seat" for the worst-case scenario. Many of us know we're heading towards rock bottom, towards an inevitable cliff so we obtain a method just in case the worst happens, because we know it's gonna happen. So we have a reliable, somewhat peaceful exit once the heat gets too much - I think that's a very understandable and humane concept, don't you think? And I know, having that option to leave this prison at any given time, is a very relieving and peaceful notion for most of us in this forum. I'm one of those people. I'm constantly on the brink but I didn't manage to follow through with my intentions, despite owning N. Maybe I never will. And that's not just me. I've made friends in this forum 2 years ago, back in 2018 when I was a fresh member, and some of them never left either, despite having a decent, reliable method. They're still alive, just like me. I know plenty of people that managed to survive a little bit longer, thanks to this forum - because the support in this community is what kept them alive - I read such posts all the time. " I came for the method, but stayed for the community." is such a common phrase. So I have to disagree with you that this forum is responsible for the death of anyone. People that have a strong desire to leave this world, will do exactly that - with or without the existence of this place, and maybe in a very risky and dangerous manner, who knows. But this forum doesn't change anything in that regards. If anything, this forum actually saved lives, we addressed that in the past.

I would even go so far and say that having a safe, reliable option for a peaceful exit prolongs life (as contradictory as this might sound at first) because it gives you back much needed control and a sense of peace, knowing you can ctb at any given time, knowing you can leave all the pain and suffering behind whenever you need to. I felt the same relief when I received my N. Like, knowing that you have that exit whenever you need it gives people so much peace that they actually reconsider following through in some cases. It's actually an argument that was brought forward by many assisted suicide organizations in support for Euthanasia. Just earlier this year Exit made the case in their magazine that people who were approved for assisted suicide, knowing they had the legal right to end their life whenever they felt ready, gave life a second chance and managed to prolong their life to a certain extend simply because it gave them peace. And I stumbled upon the same argument in a documentary about assisted suicide in Belgium. But this is topic for another thread.

...tl;dr, please don't spread false narratives in the forum.
 
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E

ebt88

Veteran
Joined
Jun 11, 2020
Messages
192
The site does encourage suicide, i don't think that's arguable. As i said before providing instructions and advice on how to ctb is encouraging by the definition of the word (make more likely, give confidence).

Now i don't say it does only that, it also encourages recovery and coping and other things too. I wasn't being moralistic, just objectivebly stating that the word "encouraging" applies. I guess people don't like to use that word cause they feel like it means advising you should ctb, while it could mean that it doesn't necessarily do so.

I don't think there is anything wrong with the site. Long live free speech.
 
E

Epsilon0

Illuminated
Joined
Dec 28, 2019
Messages
1,881
The site does encourage suicide, i don't think that's arguable. As i said before providing instructions and advice on how to ctb is encouraging by the definition of the word (make more likely, give confidence).

I wasn't being moralistic, just objectivebly stating that the word "encouraging" applies.

I don't think there is anything wrong with the site. Long live free speech.
You can think what you want and draw any conclusions you like, however illogical they may be.

But please refrain from saying that providing information equals encouragement because that goes against everything this forum stands for.


Writing ”I think” and mentioning ”free speech” does not allow you to spread erroneous claims.
 
Weightoftheworld

Weightoftheworld

Let me burn.
Joined
Apr 19, 2020
Messages
180
How ignorant.
People have been committing suicide since humanity came about, which ever way you believe that is. This site is not the issue. I am thankful for this site, if anything, it’s more of a coping mechanism for me personally.
People WILL STILL commit suicide without this site if they are determined to, it is just helpful in preventing unnecessary suffering in death or a failed attempt that results in lifelong consequences.
I can assure you, my uncle never was on this site as his suicide was many years ago, but he still did it nonetheless.
Supporting is not the same as encouraging.
 
L

Living sucks

Forced out of life before I wanted to leave
Joined
Mar 27, 2020
Messages
3,129
Educating and encouraging are very different. However a person who is truly committed to ctb will find a way regardless of this site. But maybe it stopped someone from doing a method that could hurt others like jumping in front of a car. It also may have prevented a suicide all together because that person can finally discuss their feelings.

It sucks it even has to exist .. i wish everyone could just be happy and healthy.
 
Lorntroubles

Lorntroubles

Photography by Haris Nukem.
Joined
Jan 19, 2020
Messages
3,098
In the words of Austin Powers, "oH bEhAvE!" @Brick In The Wall
 
Konolomn

Konolomn

Do not sign me up for 2021
Joined
Jul 19, 2020
Messages
40
This site is the only place where people understand my struggles and show compassion when I feel suicidal without judgment or hate. People will be alot more suicidal if they lose their community, looks like pro-life nonsense that wanna add suffering to this world instead of improving stuff and then act like heroes who save live where their judgment and blindness to understand mental illness is the first reason why people are driven to suicide
 
Life_and_Death

Life_and_Death

"So if you love me let me go" -snuff
Joined
Jul 1, 2020
Messages
1,272
Yup lol this site is TRULY awful
Personal opinion. A support group of depressed people is better then a support group of "happy" people. At least the depressed people understand what "I'm having a bad day" means. Don't get me wrong. I like my non suicidal support group but having someone that's been there done that has its advantages.
 
Squiddy

Squiddy

Here Lies My Hopes And Dreams
Joined
Sep 4, 2019
Messages
3,983
Personal opinion. A support group of depressed people is better then a support group of "happy" people. At least the depressed people understand what "I'm having a bad day" means. Don't get me wrong. I like my non suicidal support group but having someone that's been there done that has its advantages.
Very true
 
Mr2005

Mr2005

Don't shoot the messenger, give me the gun
Joined
Sep 25, 2018
Messages
2,741
Petition to ban Instagram. Sign here
 
scorpiooo2

scorpiooo2

saddest grl
Joined
Aug 23, 2019
Messages
110
They couldn't even begin to understand what this site has done for so many people, the people here are beautiful and deserve so much better than what they've gotten so far in life.

This website doesn't need to be taken down.

Talking about suicide should be normalized, it's better to talk to people who actually understand.
 
worried_to_death

worried_to_death

Illuminated
Joined
Jul 14, 2020
Messages
1,324
They couldn't even begin to understand what this site has done for so many people, the people here are beautiful and deserve so much better than what they've gotten so far in life.

This website doesn't need to be taken down.

Talking about suicide should be normalized, it's better to talk to people who actually understand.
Are they really so naive as to imagine that banning the ability to talk openly about suicide will somehow make suicide disappear?

As far as we know, suicide is as ancient as the human race, there are numerous references in the bible for example (none of which explicitly condemn it), and it even exists in the animal and insect worlds.

We need to de-stigmatize it and make it more acceptable to discuss in the open. .
Turning it into this terrible taboo and unspeakable subject benefits absolutely no one, the opposite is in fact true. Why don't pro-lifers understand this seemingly simple proposition?
 
Thinking

Thinking

Wise
Joined
Jul 9, 2020
Messages
269
Luckily it only has 63 followers so I don't think this site is going anywhere anytime soon
 
worried_to_death

worried_to_death

Illuminated
Joined
Jul 14, 2020
Messages
1,324
The site does encourage suicide, i don't think that's arguable. As i said before providing instructions and advice on how to ctb is encouraging by the definition of the word (make more likely, give confidence).
How do you know that providing support and information makes it more likely?
You could equally argue that providing information and advice reduces the likelihood of suicide.
Because when people can access knowledge and advice, this may empower them and reduce the likelihood of impulsive attempts.
Also, just possessing the means to ctb, and talk openly about how they feel, may help them through difficult times.

For all we know, and pending objective data/stats to verify one way or the other, this site may have even contributed to less people ctb'ing, than otherwise would have been the case had this site never existed.
 
BipolarGuy

BipolarGuy

Visionary
Joined
Aug 7, 2020
Messages
966
I actually sympathise with the website.

The person who started it lost her son to suicide.
I don't know the circumstances surrounding it, but how tragic.

She looked on his phone/computer and found this site.
She saw other users telling him how best to go through with it, and just assumed that this is a pro-suicide site.

I've written about the undercurrents that I've detected on this site before...

I can understand why she has reacted by being against this site, because she thinks that people on here helped her son to do it.
It was way before I joined this site a month ago.

I will say again:
I just wish people would do more about the issues that drive people to wanting to end their lives, though, rather than focus on the effect and not the cause.
 
worried_to_death

worried_to_death

Illuminated
Joined
Jul 14, 2020
Messages
1,324
Can you give me examples? I'm curious
It's slightly different in the non-human animal/insect world, where it's more a case of self-sacrifice for the colony/family, or self-destruction so their genes can be passed on, but self-death does seem also to sometimes be caused by depression, sadness, and fear.

Sometimes dogs will refuse to eat and starve to death when their owner dies, or animals being chased by predators will jump off cliffs to avoid being caught.

From the wikipedia article on animal suicide:


"Many animals that appear to be depressed or grieving begin to exhibit self-destructive behavior that sometimes ends in death, but this is not considered suicide, as the achieving of death was not necessarily the purpose or objective of the behavior. In 1845, the IIllustrated London News reported that a newfoundland dog had been acting less lively over a period of days before being seen "to throw himself in the water and endeavor to sink by preserving perfect stillness of the legs and feet". Every time he was rescued he attempted to do this again before he finally held his head underwater until death.

Other dogs, as well as ducks, have also allegedly drowned themselves, although the veracity or certainty of the case is disputed in each of the known cases. In one of the alleged case, one duck did so after the death of its mate. Some dogs will refuse food from some unknown person after the death of their owner, a behavior that might lead to disease or death in severe cases. The death of mourning animals is likely to be caused by depression leading to starvation or drowning, instead of the intent of suicide. One deer leapt from a cliff to its death to avoid being captured by hunting dogs.

Another example of an alleged case of animal suicide is the case of the dolphin which most often portrayed Flipper on the 1960s television show Flipper. According to trainer ric o'barry in the film The cove, Kathy, the dolphin, suffocated herself before him. The veracity or accuracy of this case hasn't been established in rigorous, scientific or objective terms.

Animal suicide was long used to define human suicide; in the 1800s animal suicide was seen as an act of abuse, madness, love, or loyalty, the same acts human suicide was seen as. Although it is impossible to determine what drives animals to self-destruction, some specific traits associated with human suicide can be successfully transferred to animals. Scientists have been unable to explain whether animals are able to consciously end their own lives.

Aristotle describes a case of a horse dying by suicide in his History of Animals"


So, the difference I would say is that humans have manufactured weapons/tools which they can use against themselves, and that the psychology involved is maybe more complex than with animals. But it's a continuum, not a gulf, between humans and other creatures.
 
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atari

atari

The Very Best
Joined
Jun 30, 2019
Messages
245
Where is the campaign to actually make people's lives better WITHOUT drugging them, abducting them and locking them away, berating and ridiculing them, brainwashing them, and making people's lives happier, more stable, providing EMOTIONAL and HUMAN support for their fellow human beings?

Maybe some of us wouldn't feel there is no other option if the world was a more functioning and livable place for us.
 
omoidarui

omoidarui

hai
Joined
Apr 30, 2019
Messages
617
Really? Cuz that looks awesome dude(ette?)
Ty! I’m a guy btw

I actually sympathise with the website.

The person who started it lost her son to suicide.
I don't know the circumstances surrounding it, but how tragic.
I also sympathise with them at least on a personal level but I was just sayin it seems counterproductive to what they’re trying to achieve in not wanting people to use this site then giving out the URL, I mean it’s like that “don’t think of an elephant” analogy
 
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