SN is the worst method

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TheGoodGuy

TheGoodGuy

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Aug 27, 2018
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I wouldn´t say SN is the worst method but I don´t like it as one of the only ones on this forum, there is simply too little evidence about it, all the knowledge about it is broscience from this forum meanwhile the people who will use SN dislike opiate overdose despite there being tons of information about how you just fall asleep and it´s basically fool proof if you say inject 1g of heroin with no tolerance.

And you can get a gun in EU you can get a gun in almost every country at least bolt action rifles and shotguns if you have a hunters license since hunting guns are legal in almost all countries even in England. Of course if you have been diagnosed with depression or suicidal thoughts you are not allowed to be around firearms.

EDIT: I am not saying SN won´t work, I am sure it will kill you but so will other chemicals like anti-freeze but that doesn´t mean it won´t be uncomfortable or painfull.
 
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GoneGoneGone

GoneGoneGone

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Apr 1, 2020
197
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Just had my SN confiscated. Was too freaked out of the journey and the unknowns of passing. Plus didn't have my Antiemetic around to assist.
Who confiscated it??
 
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cursum.perficio

Member
Nov 26, 2019
61
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A person who cares about my physical wellbeing/who understood the method. Can't get into too many details here.
Shame.
Are you going to try reordering again?
 
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Aliali1992

Aliali1992

We only live once..i hope
Jan 3, 2020
103
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I wouldn´t say SN is the worst method but I don´t like it as one of the only ones on this forum, there is simply too little evidence about it, all the knowledge about it is broscience from this forum meanwhile the people who will use SN dislike opiate overdose despite there being tons of information about how you just fall asleep and it´s basically fool proof if you say inject 1g of heroin with no tolerance.

And you can get a gun in EU you can get a gun in almost every country at least bolt action rifles and shotguns if you have a hunters license since hunting guns are legal in almost all countries even in England. Of course if you have been diagnosed with depression or suicidal thoughts you are not allowed to be around firearms.

EDIT: I am not saying SN won´t work, I am sure it will kill you but so will other chemicals like anti-freeze but that doesn´t mean it won´t be uncomfortable or painfull.
Opiates rate high on peacefulness. But with SN you can first test it and secondly know exactly how much SN is actually there....with Heroin you don't know and you can't know what the hell is in it the median purity for street heroin here in Germany is between 3-9% so if you got 1g with a 3 % purity you don't know if you'll die you don't know what will happen.
 
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cursum.perficio

Member
Nov 26, 2019
61
109
In the USA. Many people here buy it for at home meat curing and red/white oak applications.
If the person you're talking about was familiar with how SN is used to CTB, I doubt it'll continue being easily available in the US in the near future. It's already gone in multiple countries.
 
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TheGoodGuy

TheGoodGuy

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Aug 27, 2018
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Opiates rate high on peacefulness. But with SN you can first test it and secondly know exactly how much SN is actually there....with Heroin you don't know and you can't know what the hell is in it the median purity for street heroin here in Germany is between 3-9% so if you got 1g with a 3 % purity you don't know if you'll die you don't know what will happen.
I still say heroin OD over SN and the street purity in Germany or most countries are likely very low but it´s WAY higher on the deep web, you could also use Oxycodone which is made by regulated pharmacies.

Also I remember years ago a case in Denmark about a guy who was sick and his friend helped him ctb by using 2g of heroin IV and he died and he had a peacefull death I don´t think SN is as peacefull as people would like to believe it would be nice if we just had one video of a person ctb by using SN for documentation nut even then we wouldn´t know if the person would suffer in silence even though it appeared they were unconcious. With heroin and opiates there are tons of documentaries where people who survived and overdose would say they just went unconcious and suddendly woke up (from narcan) so there is a lot of evidence of how peaceful it is and if you are not sure that 1g heroin will do it use 2 use 3 or go with oxycodone and use over a thousand milligrams and inject it.

I am just a strong opposer of SN again not because it won´t work because I am certain it will but I doubt very much its peacefullness I know that is not a popular opinion on this site since it seems the majority will take that route it´s just my 2 cents on the issue.
 
stonemason

stonemason

Member
Apr 11, 2020
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Most people i think hardly ever think about the reality that they will die some day and that that day will be here much much faster than you realize. How do "Most people know they are going to die?" When i mention this to people you should see the shock, most people never think about it they're in denial. Yeah when confronted they can't deny it but i doubt that's they think about it a lot if hardly ever.
Yes, most don't think about dying, but that doesn't mean that they don't know they're mortal or that they're going to die someday. I think that's because most of us assume we're going to live until old age, so 30-40 years more. And that's a lot of years, at least in my opinion, even macroscopically, even if time seems to pass so fast, which yeah, it does. 30 years and 2 months are different in so many ways.

If I weren't in a suicide forum, I wouldn't ever think about dying in the near future, unless something prompted me to think of that, like a virus, driving fast, or old age. Maybe, people should think about dying a lot more, but I obviously can't assess that reasonably at the moment.
I don't share your experiences about people being shocked and in denial about dying, maybe that's why we disagree. "My" people think they've got time, so they don't think about death, why should they?
 
peacefullpainless

peacefullpainless

need a reliable method
Aug 12, 2019
262
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Yes, most don't think about dying, but that doesn't mean that they don't know they're mortal or that they're going to die someday. I think that's because most of us assume we're going to live until old age, so 30-40 years more. And that's a lot of years, at least in my opinion, even macroscopically, even if time seems to pass so fast, which yeah, it does. 30 years and 2 months are different in so many ways.

If I weren't in a suicide forum, I wouldn't ever think about dying in the near future, unless something prompted me to think of that, like a virus, driving fast, or old age. Maybe, people should think about dying a lot more, but I obviously can't assess that reasonably at the moment.
I don't share your experiences about people being shocked and in denial about dying, maybe that's why we disagree. "My" people think they've got time, so they don't think about death, why should they?
Every one is different. Some might not want Death. Death is what i want for me.. I want my death asap partly because my future is going to be hell so i'll be happy once i know it will happen and i won't be dying an agonizing tortourous death as in cancer, homlessness, starvation etc. I wish i was never born.
 
Aliali1992

Aliali1992

We only live once..i hope
Jan 3, 2020
103
147
I still say heroin OD over SN and the street purity in Germany or most countries are likely very low but it´s WAY higher on the deep web, you could also use Oxycodone which is made by regulated pharmacies.

Also I remember years ago a case in Denmark about a guy who was sick and his friend helped him ctb by using 2g of heroin IV and he died and he had a peacefull death I don´t think SN is as peacefull as people would like to believe it would be nice if we just had one video of a person ctb by using SN for documentation nut even then we wouldn´t know if the person would suffer in silence even though it appeared they were unconcious. With heroin and opiates there are tons of documentaries where people who survived and overdose would say they just went unconcious and suddendly woke up (from narcan) so there is a lot of evidence of how peaceful it is and if you are not sure that 1g heroin will do it use 2 use 3 or go with oxycodone and use over a thousand milligrams and inject it.

I am just a strong opposer of SN again not because it won´t work because I am certain it will but I doubt very much its peacefullness I know that is not a popular opinion on this site since it seems the majority will take that route it´s just my 2 cents on the issue.
I agree that there are too few information outside this forum on SN but there are many many reports on Methhaemoglobinmia and they don't fullfil my definition of a peacefull death... i agree that if you're going with it you have to accept that it is not that peaceful...but at least we know there are only ONE case of brain damage from it and it is for a child in china....you can also google heroin overdose brain damage and see the horror add that to the fact that you don't know if the dose is enough to kill you, add that to the fact is SN is legal for someone who have never used drugs or darknet.
 
Traveler

Traveler

Just passing by...
May 16, 2020
6
14
Yes, most don't think about dying, but that doesn't mean that they don't know they're mortal or that they're going to die someday. I think that's because most of us assume we're going to live until old age, so 30-40 years more. And that's a lot of years, at least in my opinion, even macroscopically, even if time seems to pass so fast, which yeah, it does. 30 years and 2 months are different in so many ways.

If I weren't in a suicide forum, I wouldn't ever think about dying in the near future, unless something prompted me to think of that, like a virus, driving fast, or old age. Maybe, people should think about dying a lot more, but I obviously can't assess that reasonably at the moment.
I don't share your experiences about people being shocked and in denial about dying, maybe that's why we disagree. "My" people think they've got time, so they don't think about death, why should they?
I've thought about this a lot, about how one's perspective of their life's brevity influences their decisions or worldviews. I definitely agree that there's a difference in knowing you'll live another month, another year, another 30 years, or another 1,000 years. Assuming a person is content with their life, the further their mortality is behind the horizon, the happier and more ambitious they become, even if they accept the eventuality of death... or at least that's my view of it. Have you ever thought about the benefits of transhumanism and potentially eliminating suffering and delaying death through it? It has a lot of interesting implications.

You seem to be a very wise person. Best wishes. :heart:
 
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TheGoodGuy

TheGoodGuy

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Aug 27, 2018
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I agree that there are too few information outside this forum on SN but there are many many reports on Methhaemoglobinmia and they don't fullfil my definition of a peacefull death... i agree that if you're going with it you have to accept that it is not that peaceful...but at least we know there are only ONE case of brain damage from it and it is for a child in china....you can also google heroin overdose brain damage and see the horror add that to the fact that you don't know if the dose is enough to kill you, add that to the fact is SN is legal for someone who have never used drugs or darknet.
SN isn´t legal everywhere at least that is my assumption since I can´t buy it in my country and I have seen threads about other people in EU that says they can´t purchase in from there own country.
 
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autumnal

autumnal

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Feb 5, 2020
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knowing that ur going to die in 20min is the worst. and u can't be drunk in that wait time. gun still quick and painless. but i can't get in eu :angry:
While everyone is entitled to their own preferences about methods, I really don't think saying 'SN is the worst method' is very objectively fair or accurate. Most people who are properly decided and committed to suicide would not be bothered by taking SN and then knowing that death is imminent within a given time period. Nor would they necessarily require alcohol to either get up the nerve to make the attempt in the first place, nor handle the waiting between taking it and unconsciousness occurring.

Perhaps if either of those are a significant problem for you, it may suggest your own ambivalence towards suicide itself rather than any shortcomings of SN as a method? I don't claim to know very much about you personally, but I would hazard a guess that even if you were magically provided with a firearm, those same feelings of hesitation and ambivalence would still be present, perhaps even to the point of you aborting the attempt despite having your preferred instant method. This isn't meant to suggest that such feelings are in any way a personal shortcoming or a criticism. They are far more common in more of us than not. But it is important that they are attributed to the individual rather than as a criticism of the SN method.

The time taken between ingesting SN and unconsciousness is generally only regarded as potentially uncomfortable due to the symptoms of SN poisoning that may arise during this period, rather than due to it being a waiting period on which to reflect on pending death.

I wouldn´t say SN is the worst method but I don´t like it as one of the only ones on this forum, there is simply too little evidence about it, all the knowledge about it is broscience from this forum meanwhile the people who will use SN dislike opiate overdose despite there being tons of information about how you just fall asleep and it´s basically fool proof if you say inject 1g of heroin with no tolerance.

And you can get a gun in EU you can get a gun in almost every country at least bolt action rifles and shotguns if you have a hunters license since hunting guns are legal in almost all countries even in England. Of course if you have been diagnosed with depression or suicidal thoughts you are not allowed to be around firearms.

EDIT: I am not saying SN won´t work, I am sure it will kill you but so will other chemicals like anti-freeze but that doesn´t mean it won´t be uncomfortable or painfull.
I wouldn't agree that there is too little evidence about SN, at least certainly in terms of quality rather than quantity. It is detailed fully and professionally in the PPH, written by two medical doctors who specialise in euthanasia. I suppose by being a relatively new innovation, and one that is comparatively rare compared to say gunshots or hanging, there is by necessity going to be lot less information about it around.

I also find 'broscience' to be an inaccurate and inflammatory term in and of itself. Despite most users here being everyday people without medical training, their abilities to assess evidence and formulate opinions are a lot more scientific and empirical than your own misinformation in your post.

I haven't personally encountered any SN supporters who 'dislike opiate overdose'. In fact quite a few people who plan to use SN have lamented the fact that it is slower and less peaceful than opiates such as heroin, fentanyl and morphine, which are unfortunately much harder to obtain unless you slog through the complexities of the darknet and cryptocurrency, or the danger and illegality of street dealers.

Your analogy likening SN to the pain and discomfort of antifreeze is completely incorrect and dangerously false.
 
Aliali1992

Aliali1992

We only live once..i hope
Jan 3, 2020
103
147
SN isn´t legal everywhere at least that is my assumption since I can´t buy it in my country and I have seen threads about other people in EU that says they can´t purchase in from there own country.
Here in Germany it is not legal to sell it to private people but it was super easy to find it on auction sites got sent in the mail twice from Poland....a sniff dog will never smell an envelop with SN and even if it was discovered it is not a drug and the worst thing that could happen that it would be sized maybem..i am not sure about other stuff and i am generally very worried about legal stuff and ending up worse than now.
 
TheGoodGuy

TheGoodGuy

Angelic
Aug 27, 2018
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I wouldn't agree that there is too little evidence about SN, at least certainly in terms of quality rather than quantity. It is detailed fully and professionally in the PPH, written by two medical doctors who specialise in euthanasia. I suppose by being a relatively new innovation, and one that is comparatively rare compared to say gunshots or hanging, there is by necessity going to be lot less information about it around.
Can you link that study that would be informative to read because if there are detailed experiements on it that would surely open my mind more about it I just never see that study being shared only members talking about it, it reminds me of a bodybuilding site I was a member of many years ago discussing steroids where in the Danish one they were so well informed and when I checked out the UK one they didn´t even know what a proper PCT (post cycle therapy) was i.e broscience they gave complete inaccurate answers.
I also find 'broscience' to be an inaccurate and inflammatory term in and of itself. Despite most users here being everyday people without medical training, their abilities to assess evidence and formulate opinions are a lot more scientific and empirical than your own misinformation in your post.
I don´t necerssarily believe you have to be a doctor i.e. gone through an education just 2 people with a webcam could do a study where the ctb subject would talk the other person through the stages but so far I haven´t seen anyone do that. And again what evidence are you talking about them forming 'opinions' on which is what broscience is they form opinions not facts.
Here in Germany it is not legal to sell it to private people but it was super easy to find it on auction sites got sent in the mail twice from Poland....a sniff dog will never smell an envelop with SN and even if it was discovered it is not a drug and the worst thing that could happen that it would be sized maybem..i am not sure about other stuff and i am generally very worried about legal stuff and ending up worse than now.
That is interesting but if it´s an illegal substance in your country a drug sniffing dog is sure to find a big bottle of it that is why on the darkweb the ship powder in vacum packed bags even crush crystals to dust like MDMA so it´s harder to detect for the machines that may scan the letter but a whole bottle would be too risky to me and I don´t think the law sees much difference in it being a recreational drug or any other drug not meant for human consumption if it´s illegal I am sure it will have consequences.
 
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autumnal

autumnal

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Feb 5, 2020
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Can you link that study that would be informative to read because if there are detailed experiements on it that would surely open my mind more about it I just never see that study being shared only members talking about it, it reminds me of a bodybuilding site I was a member of many years ago discussing steroids where in the Danish one they were so well informed and when I checked out the UK one they didn´t even know what a proper PCT (post cycle therapy) was i.e broscience they gave complete inaccurate answers.

I don´t necerssarily believe you have to be a doctor i.e. gone through an education just 2 people with a webcam could do a study where the ctb subject would talk the other person through the stages but so far I haven´t seen anyone do that. And again what evidence are you talking about them forming 'opinions' on which is what broscience is they form opinions not facts.
The Peaceful Pill Handbook (PPH) is probably the most established and definitive suicide handbook in the world. It never ceases to surprise me when members here haven't read it. It would be like members of a religous forum not having heard of the bible. You can find a link to it in the Resource Compilation section.

One important difference between broscience and opinions on this forum is that broscience (which I understand to be men ['bros'] on bodybuilding or similar forums giving personal opinions as if they are science) is that broscience is an innacurate version of a correct science which actually exists. So someone might state an incorrect fact about metabolism, for example, but a scientist could tell you the correct fact. The effectiveness and subjective experience of suicide methods, in contrast, is not often studied by scientists and so for many aspects the collective anecdotes of people are all the evidence there is on a topic. Admittedly this evidence is a lot weaker and less scientific than proper empirical evidence, but it is still the best there is.
 
Aliali1992

Aliali1992

We only live once..i hope
Jan 3, 2020
103
147
Can you link that study that would be informative to read because if there are detailed experiements on it that would surely open my mind more about it I just never see that study being shared only members talking about it, it reminds me of a bodybuilding site I was a member of many years ago discussing steroids where in the Danish one they were so well informed and when I checked out the UK one they didn´t even know what a proper PCT (post cycle therapy) was i.e broscience they gave complete inaccurate answers.

I don´t necerssarily believe you have to be a doctor i.e. gone through an education just 2 people with a webcam could do a study where the ctb subject would talk the other person through the stages but so far I haven´t seen anyone do that. And again what evidence are you talking about them forming 'opinions' on which is what broscience is they form opinions not facts.

That is interesting but if it´s an illegal substance in your country a drug sniffing dog is sure to find a big bottle of it that is why on the darkweb the ship powder in vacum packed bags even crush crystals to dust like MDMA so it´s harder to detect for the machines that may scan the letter but a whole bottle would be too risky to me and I don´t think the law sees much difference in it being a recreational drug or any other drug not meant for human consumption if it´s illegal I am sure it will have consequences.
The sniffing dogs are surely not trained to detect it. Secondly it is not on the list of prohibited drugs..it not legal to buy it without a licence but it is not illegal to have it..it just for curing meat...it does not cause addiction.
 
TheGoodGuy

TheGoodGuy

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Aug 27, 2018
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The sniffing dogs are surely not trained to detect it. Secondly it is not on the list of prohibited drugs..it not legal to buy it without a licence but it is not illegal to have it..it just for curing meat...it does not cause addiction.
I know it´s for curing meat I just assumed if it was illegal you would be in trouble for importing an illegal substance but it seems like you have done your research about the laws.
 
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peacefullpainless

peacefullpainless

need a reliable method
Aug 12, 2019
262
733
While everyone is entitled to their own preferences about methods, I really don't think saying 'SN is the worst method' is very objectively fair or accurate. Most people who are properly decided and committed to suicide would not be bothered by taking SN and then knowing that death is imminent within a given time period. Nor would they necessarily require alcohol to either get up the nerve to make the attempt in the first place, nor handle the waiting between taking it and unconsciousness occurring.

Perhaps if either of those are a significant problem for you, it may suggest your own ambivalence towards suicide itself rather than any shortcomings of SN as a method? I don't claim to know very much about you personally, but I would hazard a guess that even if you were magically provided with a firearm, those same feelings of hesitation and ambivalence would still be present, perhaps even to the point of you aborting the attempt despite having your preferred instant method. This isn't meant to suggest that such feelings are in any way a personal shortcoming or a criticism. They are far more common in more of us than not. But it is important that they are attributed to the individual rather than as a criticism of the SN method.

The time taken between ingesting SN and unconsciousness is generally only regarded as potentially uncomfortable due to the symptoms of SN poisoning that may arise during this period, rather than due to it being a waiting period on which to reflect on pending death.



I wouldn't agree that there is too little evidence about SN, at least certainly in terms of quality rather than quantity. It is detailed fully and professionally in the PPH, written by two medical doctors who specialise in euthanasia. I suppose by being a relatively new innovation, and one that is comparatively rare compared to say gunshots or hanging, there is by necessity going to be lot less information about it around.

I also find 'broscience' to be an inaccurate and inflammatory term in and of itself. Despite most users here being everyday people without medical training, their abilities to assess evidence and formulate opinions are a lot more scientific and empirical than your own misinformation in your post.

I haven't personally encountered any SN supporters who 'dislike opiate overdose'. In fact quite a few people who plan to use SN have lamented the fact that it is slower and less peaceful than opiates such as heroin, fentanyl and morphine, which are unfortunately much harder to obtain unless you slog through the complexities of the darknet and cryptocurrency, or the danger and illegality of street dealers.

Your analogy likening SN to the pain and discomfort of antifreeze is completely incorrect and dangerously false.
To me these 16 cases of SN ctb attempt survivors provide incontrovertible evidence that the SN method is painLess: SN failures (16 cases). The SN method is painLess if the correct procedure is followed.
 
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Cashewmilk

Cashewmilk

Veteran
Mar 10, 2020
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I still say heroin OD over SN and the street purity in Germany or most countries are likely very low but it´s WAY higher on the deep web, you could also use Oxycodone which is made by regulated pharmacies.

Also I remember years ago a case in Denmark about a guy who was sick and his friend helped him ctb by using 2g of heroin IV and he died and he had a peacefull death I don´t think SN is as peacefull as people would like to believe it would be nice if we just had one video of a person ctb by using SN for documentation nut even then we wouldn´t know if the person would suffer in silence even though it appeared they were unconcious. With heroin and opiates there are tons of documentaries where people who survived and overdose would say they just went unconcious and suddendly woke up (from narcan) so there is a lot of evidence of how peaceful it is and if you are not sure that 1g heroin will do it use 2 use 3 or go with oxycodone and use over a thousand milligrams and inject it.

I am just a strong opposer of SN again not because it won´t work because I am certain it will but I doubt very much its peacefullness I know that is not a popular opinion on this site since it seems the majority will take that route it´s just my 2 cents on the issue.
You seem like you know a lot about opiate OD. Do you know anything about tolerance, most addicts who OD do it after a relapse, their tolerance was lower or they were forced to go without opiates for a while. Btw most heroin is laced with fentanyl at least in the US and Canada. Do you know how long one should go without using before trying to OD on it? I'm a user of 10 years smoking heroin, and fentanyl/heroin for 7 of those years, methadone for 3 of those years. I have methadone and I hear that it's extremely dangerous, but I've tried to OD on methadone before, but I have way more now. You can PM if you want. I have a post on methadone where I posted the details, I am getting more every month now.