[Venting] No reasons left to stay.

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faust

faust

lost among the stars
Jan 26, 2020
2,215
2,983
To begin with, I’m the kind of person who approaches everything logically, but acts as the heart tells.
I’ve been trying to understand for a long time, what if my situation can be somehow fixed. Making the unbiased analysis, I constantly come to the same conclusion - it would be much better for me to die.
Some reasons to stay seem too far-fetched, because when I think rationally, all aspirations are obviously doomed to failure.
Anyway, what is the point of eking out existence, when even logical chains tell me otherwise.
The only thing I would like before death is to enjoy life, because I have never lived - I simply exist. As if I’m living a completely vicarious life. University, work, career ... Is it really important? In general, I dreamed of traveling the world, without permanent residence, as it was intended for a real ascetic, writing books, music. For me, happiness was in romanticism. But how can I live like this, when in the first months of the trip I will simply lose the opportunity to cross the border, all my accounts will be frozen and eventually I will be deported sooner or later. And creativity is not limited to writing books - now it is a long procedure.
Even if I fail the first CTB attempt, what can they tell me? Live as you like and enjoy life? Make your dreams come true? No, my dreams were crushed, chewed and thrown into the dustbin of history.
Perhaps I came here for a greater purpose, but all my attempts turn out to be a failure.
All my talents seem to be worthless in this world.
When I see the light at the end of the tunnel, the clatter of the train immediately becomes audible. And when the last carriage goes off into the distance, I begin my journey as if from the beginning.
If I ever be buried, they will say a lot of things about how kind, good and helpful I was. But they will not say that I never lived my own life.
 
U

Ulisses

Veteran
Feb 21, 2020
101
107
To begin with, I’m the kind of person who approaches everything logically, but acts as the heart tells.
I’ve been trying to understand for a long time, what if my situation can be somehow fixed. Making the unbiased analysis, I constantly come to the same conclusion - it would be much better for me to die.
Some reasons to stay seem too far-fetched, because when I think rationally, all aspirations are obviously doomed to failure.
Anyway, what is the point of eking out existence, when even logical chains tell me otherwise.
The only thing I would like before death is to enjoy life, because I have never lived - I simply exist. As if I’m living a completely vicarious life. University, work, career ... Is it really important? In general, I dreamed of traveling the world, without permanent residence, as it was intended for a real ascetic, writing books, music. For me, happiness was in romanticism. But how can I live like this, when in the first months of the trip I will simply lose the opportunity to cross the border, all my accounts will be frozen and eventually I will be deported sooner or later. And creativity is not limited to writing books - now it is a long procedure.
Even if I fail the first CTB attempt, what can they tell me? Live as you like and enjoy life? Make your dreams come true? No, my dreams were crushed, chewed and thrown into the dustbin of history.
Perhaps I came here for a greater purpose, but all my attempts turn out to be a failure.
All my talents seem to be worthless in this world.
When I see the light at the end of the tunnel, the clatter of the train immediately becomes audible. And when the last carriage goes off into the distance, I begin my journey as if from the beginning.
If I ever be buried, they will say a lot of things about how kind, good and helpful I was. But they will not say that I never lived my own life.
I also dreamed of leaving a trip without a fixed term, style in Wilda, but my mental health does not help me, so I gave up walking around aimlessly, home. alex supertramp ate the end.
 
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Underscore

Underscore

High Functioning Potato
Jul 31, 2018
2,803
5,261
To begin with, I’m the kind of person who approaches everything logically, but acts as the heart tells.
I’ve been trying to understand for a long time, what if my situation can be somehow fixed. Making the unbiased analysis, I constantly come to the same conclusion - it would be much better for me to die.
Some reasons to stay seem too far-fetched, because when I think rationally, all aspirations are obviously doomed to failure.
Anyway, what is the point of eking out existence, when even logical chains tell me otherwise.
The only thing I would like before death is to enjoy life, because I have never lived - I simply exist. As if I’m living a completely vicarious life. University, work, career ... Is it really important? In general, I dreamed of traveling the world, without permanent residence, as it was intended for a real ascetic, writing books, music. For me, happiness was in romanticism. But how can I live like this, when in the first months of the trip I will simply lose the opportunity to cross the border, all my accounts will be frozen and eventually I will be deported sooner or later. And creativity is not limited to writing books - now it is a long procedure.
Even if I fail the first CTB attempt, what can they tell me? Live as you like and enjoy life? Make your dreams come true? No, my dreams were crushed, chewed and thrown into the dustbin of history.
Perhaps I came here for a greater purpose, but all my attempts turn out to be a failure.
All my talents seem to be worthless in this world.
When I see the light at the end of the tunnel, the clatter of the train immediately becomes audible. And when the last carriage goes off into the distance, I begin my journey as if from the beginning.
If I ever be buried, they will say a lot of things about how kind, good and helpful I was. But they will not say that I never lived my own life.
That was very eloquently written faust.
I have always struggled to find a way to express the creativity I have inside me. The system wants you to play by the rules but stifles your creativity. If you play outside the rules then life becomes more difficult. The trick has always been to subvert the rules to your own paradigm and that's something I've never mastered. It makes me very sad. :hug:
 
faust

faust

lost among the stars
Jan 26, 2020
2,215
2,983
That was very eloquently written faust.
I have always struggled to find a way to express the creativity I have inside me. The system wants you to play by the rules but stifles your creativity. If you play outside the rules then life becomes more difficult. The trick has always been to subvert the rules to your own paradigm and that's something I've never mastered. It makes me very sad. :hug:
It was possible for me years ago. But now not any more. I wonder would my mental health deteriorate so much if I chose this way of living then?
 
Una

Una

Write something, even if it’s just a suicide note
Feb 28, 2020
27
78
Faust … what you wrote is beautiful.

For it comes from a heart that aches from longing … longing for beauty, for freedom, for love. For winds in one's hair.

For long, lazy summer afternoons. Azure skies. Aquamarine seas. Emerald rivers. For symphonies and dance halls.

Bank accounts do not come into it … not even close. For they blot the light with their commonness and their brutishness. Isn't it so?

I say all this, even though I do not know you at all ... only what you wrote here. That I recognised. From my own dreams.

The ones I had before to learn that it was all just a dream ... It is a gentle night this one.

One wraps a shawl around and slips out as light as a feather bower.

Hardly anyone notices ... the lightness of a step, the curve of a smile.

Soon a new day downs to find someone laying under the apple blossom smiling to a vision of a young girl pirouetting to a piano-peace yet to be composed.



May you have a gentle night.
 
Underscore

Underscore

High Functioning Potato
Jul 31, 2018
2,803
5,261
It was possible for me years ago. But now not any more. I wonder would my mental health deteriorate so much if I chose this way of living then?
My brother did it. One day decided he didn't want to be in the rat race anymore. He quit and has never held a proper job since. Technically, he's self employed.
He works the system, but always plays within it. He's lucky enough to own his own home though. He spends all day painting or sculpting though rarely sells anything. He helps people out with building work. He pays very little fuel bills as he has a wood burner and often spends all day chopping wood too. Free exercise and free fuel he says, gets it all from the local woods, which he's single handedly managing. He basically cheats at life and seems to be quite content.
 
faust

faust

lost among the stars
Jan 26, 2020
2,215
2,983
@Una If the meaning of life lies in life itself, then why do we live if we go against the very meaning. I would like to believe that our destiny is not an infinite reproduction, but something way higher. We work for the system, not even realizing that we implicitly follow generally accepted rules. And where are the sleepless nights around the campfire? Or a myriad of stars shining on a gloomy horizon? Where is life on this endless life path?
@Underscore I know people like that too. Some are very successful, some are simply living how they want to live. But they have different life situations and maybe their mental health did not result in so many mistakes.
 
Una

Una

Write something, even if it’s just a suicide note
Feb 28, 2020
27
78
@Una If the meaning of life lies in life itself, then why do we live if we go against the very meaning. I would like to believe that our destiny is not an infinite reproduction, but something way higher. We work for the system, not even realizing that we implicitly follow generally accepted rules. And where are the sleepless nights around the campfire? Or a myriad of stars shining on a gloomy horizon? Where is life on this endless life path?
My dear Faust,
I never said or thought of life as being an 'infinite reproduction' or 'even something way higher' … because one would first have to define those terms. All I said … tried to say at least is that some dreams are beautiful. That is all. I do not know what life is … even less what death might be. All that claim otherwise simply deflect from their own fears. More certain one is of something, less one knows about it. The great truths are as complex as they are elusive. I never thought life can be 'found' on any 'life path' ... only briefly treasured. Every pain and every joy ... For a brief moment, I have lived as a human. In that time I knew love and pain and loss ... sorrow and its cousin remorse ... and then, just like that, it is time to go. Here comes the station-master with its whistle and I hurry my step slightly ... soon birch trees will be passing by the window.
 
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faust

faust

lost among the stars
Jan 26, 2020
2,215
2,983
My dear Faust,
I never said or thought of life as being an 'infinite reproduction' or 'even something way higher' … because one would first have to define those terms. All I said … tried to say at least is that some dreams are beautiful. That is all. I do not know what life is … even less what death might be. All that claim otherwise simply deflect from their own fears. More certain one is of something, less one knows about it. The great truths are as complex as they are elusive. I never thought life can be 'found' on any 'life path' ... only briefly treasured. Every pain and every joy ... For a brief moment, I have lived as a human. In that time I knew love and pain and loss ... sorrow and its cousin remorse ... and then, just like that, it is time to go. Here comes the station-master with its whistle and I hurry my step slightly ... soon birch trees will be passing by the window.
Sorry, that were only my thoughts :hug: You are right, everybody determines what life is for them, I just wanted to make an accent on the thing that I do not accept the common beliefs of what life is.
 
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Una

Una

Write something, even if it’s just a suicide note
Feb 28, 2020
27
78
Sorry, that were only my thoughts :hug: You are right, everybody determines what life is for them, I just wanted to make an accent on the thing that I do not accept the common beliefs of what life is.
I understand … we each have our own way of expressing our thoughts and believes.
It is what makes us different from each other ... and there is a beauty in that.

Best,
Una
 
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B

bpdandme

Veteran
Feb 3, 2020
118
331
To begin with, I’m the kind of person who approaches everything logically, but acts as the heart tells.
I’ve been trying to understand for a long time, what if my situation can be somehow fixed. Making the unbiased analysis, I constantly come to the same conclusion - it would be much better for me to die.
Some reasons to stay seem too far-fetched, because when I think rationally, all aspirations are obviously doomed to failure.
Anyway, what is the point of eking out existence, when even logical chains tell me otherwise.
The only thing I would like before death is to enjoy life, because I have never lived - I simply exist. As if I’m living a completely vicarious life. University, work, career ... Is it really important? In general, I dreamed of traveling the world, without permanent residence, as it was intended for a real ascetic, writing books, music. For me, happiness was in romanticism. But how can I live like this, when in the first months of the trip I will simply lose the opportunity to cross the border, all my accounts will be frozen and eventually I will be deported sooner or later. And creativity is not limited to writing books - now it is a long procedure.
Even if I fail the first CTB attempt, what can they tell me? Live as you like and enjoy life? Make your dreams come true? No, my dreams were crushed, chewed and thrown into the dustbin of history.
Perhaps I came here for a greater purpose, but all my attempts turn out to be a failure.
All my talents seem to be worthless in this world.
When I see the light at the end of the tunnel, the clatter of the train immediately becomes audible. And when the last carriage goes off into the distance, I begin my journey as if from the beginning.
If I ever be buried, they will say a lot of things about how kind, good and helpful I was. But they will not say that I never lived my own life.
In the posts I've seen in which you have replied to, your comments and replies always stand out to me due to the kindness I see. I'm so sorry you feel like this, I feel like we are similar in our expectations of life - I also had a dream of travelling which was crushed due to my extreme anxiety. I have also failed suicide multiple times. Life is so shit and I'm so sorry because you seem like a great person - like most people on this site. Please feel free to PM me if you need to chat, sending light your way!
 
faust

faust

lost among the stars
Jan 26, 2020
2,215
2,983
In the posts I've seen in which you have replied to, your comments and replies always stand out to me due to the kindness I see. I'm so sorry you feel like this, I feel like we are similar in our expectations of life - I also had a dream of travelling which was crushed due to my extreme anxiety. I have also failed suicide multiple times. Life is so shit and I'm so sorry because you seem like a great person - like most people on this site. Please feel free to PM me if you need to chat, sending light your way!
Thanks a lot for your kind words! :heart: And I have seen in the posts before you are struggling too...
 
J

jgm63

Angelic
Oct 28, 2019
2,139
3,327
Well, we love ya faust, so that could be a reason....
 
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Mr2005

Mr2005

Don't shoot the messenger, give me the gun
Sep 25, 2018
2,045
6,505
You're a good writer I'll say that much. Expressed many of my own thoughts. Ending it really does seem like it's the smart thing to do unfortunately
 
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faust

faust

lost among the stars
Jan 26, 2020
2,215
2,983
You're a good writer I'll say that much. Expressed many of my own thoughts. Ending it really does seem like it's the smart thing to do unfortunately
Thank you, just wrote my thoughts :hug:
 
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Underscore

Underscore

High Functioning Potato
Jul 31, 2018
2,803
5,261
If the meaning of life lies in life itself, then why do we live if we go against the very meaning.
Because life is a paradox, that's why it exists at all. Everything in the universe tends toward nothing. This is entropy, for biological matter this is expressed as decay and death. It's that ultimate failure that prompts the organisation of energy into matter into biology and eventually into consciousness, precisely because it's so final.
The objective purpose of life is to create more life. The subjective purpose of life is what you make it. It only really has value because of the struggle to live which is caused by the spectre of death. It's paradoxical and thus very confusing.

tao.gif
 
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B

Blutsager

Member
Mar 11, 2020
55
120
Faust, you are a very beloved member of this community.
I am sorry to hear of such sadness on you.

If anything else, a good reason to stay is to remember, death is inevitable. It will come eventually, and when it does, all your sadness will vanish away, like it never existed. So, knowing it will arrive eventually, is there any point in rushing it?.

No no, don't be ashamed of your suffering. It's not unfair to others, but it is unfair to you to minimize your own suffering simply by comparing it with others. Your suffering is valid, and understandable.

You did your best. So did all of us. And we are still, doing our best.

If it helps, if it is of any comfort, remember: all suffering is temporary, death is inevitable, and paradise is eternal happiness.

Hope this may help you. And if you still go on with your decision to end it all... you know we will support your decision. We love you.
 
faust

faust

lost among the stars
Jan 26, 2020
2,215
2,983
@Underscore I agree, this is very paradoxical. And the very origin of life on planet Earth is a very mysterious phenomenon. For example, if we take the primordial soup, it is not entirely clear how life could appear in such conditions. And a huge amount of water, which appeared on the planet. And why, for breathing, we use oxygen, which at the same time kills us. The world is full of mysteries.
@Blutsager Thank you for your kind words of support! it is always pleasant to hear something like that on a lonely day! Though there are things that I simply cannot change :(
 
H

Hopeindeath!

Master
Dec 7, 2019
405
498
Thank you for sharing your thoughts and feelings. I am so sorry for all that you are suffering. You are truly a beautiful person.:hug:
 
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Underscore

Underscore

High Functioning Potato
Jul 31, 2018
2,803
5,261
it is not entirely clear how life could appear in such conditions.
You are correct. There are theories of course and they are fascinating. It's been a while since I studied this, so I might have to re-familiarise myself with the theories. But I suspect that life is the natural progression of energy into matter into biology that occurs as a counterpoint to increasing entropy. I see the paradoxical element of it all as what creates motion. And life is motion. Movement of energy. All created by this paradoxical dynamo effect.
 
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faust

faust

lost among the stars
Jan 26, 2020
2,215
2,983
You are correct. There are theories of course and they are fascinating. It's been a while since I studied this, so I might have to re-familiarise myself with the theories. But I suspect that life is the natural progression of energy into matter into biology that occurs as a counterpoint to increasing entropy. I see the paradoxical element of it all as what creates motion. And life is motion. Movement of energy. All created by this paradoxical dynamo effect.
Or that the evolution is inevitable. If there is no evolution, degradation takes place and species cannot survive.
 
Underscore

Underscore

High Functioning Potato
Jul 31, 2018
2,803
5,261
Do you believe that singularity is inevitable too?
Damn, such a short question, and so hard to answer easily lol.
Yes and no. Complex.

The ultimate result of this increase in complexity/development of life/evolution/rise of technology is extinction. Or at least metastasis leading to an extinction event. We are in such and event now and have been for quite some time: The Holocene Extinction.
It's a perfectly natural and normal process. As soon as complexity rises to the point where a species gains the ability to manipulate its environment, a ticking time bomb is started, where that technological advancement progresses exponentially through time.
Pointy sticks, stone tools, agriculture, metalwork, trade networks, architecture, transport, industry, artificial intelligence, wealth disparity, appropriation of power, burgeoning population, disease, war, mass extinctions... at a certain point there are natural feedback mechanisms that come into play to limit population growth. I think we are currently seeing one of those factors. There will be more.

The natural progression of energy/matter/complexity in opposition to universal entropy naturally leads us to this point, where our technological advancement and it's associated effects (over population, environmental destruction etc) is likely to destroy us.
However, it's also potentially the only thing that can save us, by coming up with new ideas to outwit the rules. The Singularity may be part of that, if it is at all possible - and we are indeed progressing in that direction.
BUT, the pressures that come with that are likely to stop this happening before it gets going.
The only way around this is to halt the natural tendencies that evolution gives us. The need for personal power and wealth, to prioritise survival of the self and the immediate family unit before the survival of the species, all things obvious in the archaeological record and the history books.

We need to shift our focus and prioritise society as a whole over the individual. However, this is essentially hacking the most fundamental rules of the universe and it may not be possible. After all, potatoes will potate. No getting around that. If we could do this, then it may launch into a new direction for humanity. This is a point of metastasis that we were always going to come to eventually. A crisis of such profound potential can go either way. Extinction or salvation, depending on how we deal with it.

So, Singularity. Inevitable? We progress inevitably towards it, but it's likely that the natural limits set on us by the processes underlying evolution will stop us getting there. That is our test. And if there is more life out there in the universe, I wouldn't be at all surprised if they have faced/are facing/will face exactly the same test.
 
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faust

faust

lost among the stars
Jan 26, 2020
2,215
2,983
Damn, such a short question, and so hard to answer easily lol.
Yes and no. Complex.

The ultimate result of this increase in complexity/development of life/evolution/rise of technology is extinction. Or at least metastasis leading to an extinction event. We are in such and event now and have been for quite some time: The Holocene Extinction.
It's a perfectly natural and normal process. As soon as complexity rises to the point where a species gains the ability to manipulate its environment, a ticking time bomb is started, where that technological advancement progresses exponentially through time.
Pointy sticks, stone tools, agriculture, metalwork, trade networks, architecture, transport, industry, artificial intelligence, wealth disparity, appropriation of power, burgeoning population, disease, war, mass extinctions... at a certain point there are natural feedback mechanisms that come into play to limit population growth. I think we are currently seeing one of those factors. There will be more.

The natural progression of energy/matter/complexity in opposition to universal entropy naturally leads us to this point, where our technological advancement and it's associated effects (over population, environmental destruction etc) is likely to destroy us.
However, it's also potentially the only thing that can save us, by coming up with new ideas to outwit the rules. The Singularity may be part of that, if it is at all possible - and we are indeed progressing in that direction.
BUT, the pressures that come with that are likely to stop this happening before it gets going.
The only way around this is to halt the natural tendencies that evolution gives us. The need for personal power and wealth, to prioritise survival of the self and the immediate family unit before the survival of the species, all things obvious in the archaeological record and the history books.

We need to shift our focus and prioritise society as a whole over the individual. However, this is essentially hacking the most fundamental rules of the universe and it may not be possible. After all, potatoes will potate. No getting around that. If we could do this, then it may launch into a new direction for humanity. This is a point of metastasis that we were always going to come to eventually. A crisis of such profound potential can go either way. Extinction or salvation, depending on how we deal with it.

So, Singularity. Inevitable? We progress inevitably towards it, but it's likely that the natural limits set on us by the processes underlying evolution will stop us getting there. That is our test. And if there is more life out there in the universe, I wouldn't be at all surprised if they have faced/are facing/will face exactly the same test.
In general, this topic is quite interesting. If we are slowly but surely moving towards extinction, then first of all it is worth thinking about what is the meaning of life itself in the Universe. The lifetime of stars is very limited. From the point of view of the development of the Universe, there was and there is no need to create life, since life cannot in any way affect the processes occurring in the Universe. If our Universe is model, then in this case, each new generation of life must leave behind a new model of the Universe, in which life will be reborn and will die again leaving their own model. And so on ad infinitum. As for the extinction, no one is sure in principle. Some species lead to the extinction of others - it has already been so.
When the number of organisms per square unit becomes too high, this inevitably leads to the disappearance of these organisms. Nothing can grow indefinitely. If we apply the Elliott wave theory, then some processes become more understandable. However, if you apply it to the Universe, then, hypothetically, the Universe itself also has development cycles. Ofc with amendments. We still do not know what will happen when, after the death of all stars, black holes merge into one (if will). We know that if something gets too big, it starts to decay. Yes, even if an element has a huge atomic mass, it begins to decay to other elements or particles that have a lower atomic mass. This applies to the universe as a whole.

The technological development of mankind, in turn, will bring many problems. If we take into account artificial intelligence, sooner or later, humanity will simply begin to parasitize on the work of our metal friends (for now, metal ones, because no one has canceled the neural network) and the development of our species as a species will stop. Artificial intelligence will be more adapted to the world around us than we are. But these guys, too, will not be able to live forever. Sooner or later, artificial intelligence will calculate that the service of humanity spends too much of their resources and then a person will have to get out on his own. We still have not learned how to get energy from the air or e.g. from the ionosphere - we use expensive and inefficient methods. Therefore, in such conditions it is difficult to say whether we are really developing in the right direction.

And to understand what is wrong with this world is possible without leaving home. Many cities are still located at sea level, because we still do not realize that we live in the age when some parts of the world are covered with ice, while hundreds of millions of years glaciers did not exist at all. This in turn will lead to an increase in the water level by 30 meters (let them say what they want, this process is inevitable) and the person will have to pack his bags and get out of there. Why build a world near water if all of this is ultimately flooded ...

All in all, extinction is a normal process and will take place anyway.
 
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Underscore

Underscore

High Functioning Potato
Jul 31, 2018
2,803
5,261
there was and there is no need to create life, since life cannot in any way affect the processes occurring in the Universe.
That really is the key thing isn't it? And that goes way beyond any nail on determinism into the realms of religion and philosophy. Whilst we have to be careful of anthropomorphic principle, the question is: does this organisation of matter/energy into life and consciousness simply arise as a natural counterpoint to entropy? Or is their an underlying reason for the struggle? Is their an end goal? Does life effect the processes we see? What of the observer paradox?

Some philosophies will cite nirvana or the ultimate dissolution of ego. An escape from the race and constant struggle always doomed to failure. An recursive cycles of reincarnation to evolve across lifetimes etc. But isn't the dissolution of ego into nirvana a kind of ultimate suicide? To step beyond nature into...
When the number of organisms per square unit becomes too high, this inevitably leads to the disappearance of these organisms
Yes. This is the Malthusian crisis that we currently face.

And I agree with everything else you posted too :smiling: