[Help] Little or No Sleep At All

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TheFishingDude

Member
Oct 28, 2018
77
908
Hello,

My friend has depression and problems with sleeping.
She either gets 4-5 hours of sleep or no sleep at all sometimes.
She tried to do physical activity like biking for almost half a day, fully exhausting herself but still her sleep is bad.
This has been going since July 2019 and because of lack of sleep she is constantly tired and in bad mental condition.

Anyone here has similar issues?

These are the medications that she takes:

- Zopiclone
- Seroquel (Quetiapine) 500mg
- Oxazepam

What if one of medications affects her sleep negatively?

I was thinking that supplements like these could help her but what if they will conflict with her medications?

- 5-HTP (5 Hydroxy-Tryptophan)
- L-Lysine
- L-Theanine
 
BlackPoppet

BlackPoppet

Wise woman and Celtic sky person
Mar 7, 2020
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If the medication you mentioned that your friend is taking isn’t working, she needs to go back to her doctor. May be a change in meds is what she needs. I have a medically diagnosed sleep disorder, for the last 22 years I’ve had this disorder. I take zopiclone. It always works for me. I am not on seroquel anymore, but that got me to sleep most of the time. Not all. I’ve been on Oxazepam too in the past. They worked too.
I take L-theanine and 5- htp for my mood. These are natural. But your friend should ask her doctor if it’s ok to take them. Because of possible interactions with the meds that she’s already taking. Maybe she could try CBD oil.
Maybe she could ask her doctor to refer her for a sleep study. It sounds like a serious situation if zopiclone won’t make her sleep. PM me if you need.
 
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TheFishingDude

Member
Oct 28, 2018
77
908
Thanks BlackPoppet

CBD oil does not help her.
Regarding compatibility between supplements and medications, she needs to ask her general practitioner or psychiatrist?
Also, who conducts sleep study?
 
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BlackPoppet

BlackPoppet

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Mar 7, 2020
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Thanks BlackPoppet

CBD oil does not help her.
Regarding compatibility between supplements and medications, she needs to ask her general practitioner or psychiatrist?
Also, who conducts sleep study?
That’s ok. Welcome! Yes I’f zopiclone doesn’t help, CBD oil certainly won’t. I’d thought it knight be compatible with your friend. Zopiclone is the most best working med that I take. I only take CBD for my anxiety when I don’t have Diazepam.
A sleep study will likely be conducted at a sleep department of a hospital, it depends which hospital however. A team of sleep specialists will conduct the sleep study.
She will need to ask her Physician/ General practitioner about taking supplements.
I had my sleep study done at Guys hospital, London Bridge, London.
Has your friend heard of CBT-I? It’s a cognitive behavioural therapy that deals specifically with insomnia?
 
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madbananas

madbananas

Specialist
Apr 29, 2020
321
769
Hello,

My friend has depression and problems with sleeping.
She either gets 4-5 hours of sleep or no sleep at all sometimes.
She tried to do physical activity like biking for almost half a day, fully exhausting herself but still her sleep is bad.
This has been going since July 2019 and because of lack of sleep she is constantly tired and in bad mental condition.

Anyone here has similar issues?

These are the medications that she takes:

- Zopiclone
- Seroquel (Quetiapine) 500mg
- Oxazepam

What if one of medications affects her sleep negatively?

I was thinking that supplements like these could help her but what if they will conflict with her medications?

- 5-HTP (5 Hydroxy-Tryptophan)
- L-Lysine
- L-Theanine
Zopiclone should only be used for a very short period of time because if I’m thinking correctly, it can become addictive and make sleeping a nightmare in the long run.
As for my sleeping, when I’m feeling depressed (going through it currently) my nights turn in to days, so I tend to be awake over night and sleep all day.
Hope your friend's sleep improves :hug:
 
BlackPoppet

BlackPoppet

Wise woman and Celtic sky person
Mar 7, 2020
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Zopiclone should only be used for a very short period of time because if I’m thinking correctly, it can become addictive and make sleeping a nightmare in the long run.
As for my sleeping, when I’m feeling depressed (going through it currently) my nights turn in to days, so I tend to be awake over night and sleep all day.
Hope your friend's sleep improves :hug:
I’m on Zopiclone permanently because it’s the only drug that puts me to sleep. I’ve not had any problems with it so far. I still sleep really well on it and wake up feeling refreshed the next day. However I get what you are saying. I’ve had my sleep disorder for half my life. I am a lost cause and my sleep doc put me on zopiclone indefinitely. I do have a review once a year with my GP. But yeah typically it should be used short term. I’m too far gone for short term meds. But for other people, short term is probably the way to go. I’m different in the sense that I lost the ability to sleep naturally. So it’s not curable for me. I’d give anything to fall asleep naturally, but I can’t. I malfunctioned.
 
madbananas

madbananas

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Apr 29, 2020
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I’m on Zopiclone permanently because it’s the only drug that puts me to sleep. I’ve not had any problems with it so far. I still sleep really well on it and wake up feeling refreshed the next day. However I get what you are saying. I’ve had my sleep disorder for half my life. I am a lost cause and my sleep doc put me on zopiclone indefinitely. I do have a review once a year with my GP. But yeah typically it should be used short term. I’m too far gone for short term meds. But for other people, short term is probably the way to go. I’m different in the sense that I lost the ability to sleep naturally. So it’s not curable for me. I’d give anything to fall asleep naturally, but I can’t. I malfunctioned.
Thank you for sharing that, it’s good to hear that it can work long term because it is often a person’s last hope for sleep!
I’m sorry you can’t sleep naturally, is that a significant reason for you joining this forum? Just out of curiosity, because I know for me, sleep issues can send my mood off the rails, never mind for someone like yourself who physically cannot sleep naturally.
:aw::hug:
 
Grey-zone

Grey-zone

Veteran
Feb 2, 2019
131
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I've dealt with a similar issue for about the same length of time as your friend, for about a year. Calming/acceptance techniques work when the going is rough, but don't necessarily help with getting to sleep, per say, though they certainly make it easier when you can't sleep. A better strategy than meds or meditation alone is probably sleep compression, unless the issue is noise at night, or work. I thought my insomnia was work related, so when I was temporarily laid off during the start of COVID I stopped the sleep restriction I'd begun... I'm still laid off (US economy's gone to shit, and all that), but I realize now that the primary reason for my insomnia is psychological conditioning, and restriction does, in fact, work quite well with that, at least when I first started trying it for more than a week. Today is my first day back on the technique. Last night was a bitch, which is not a bad sign. My hesitance to trying it earlier was a) the considerable lack of sleep you'll be getting for the first week or two and b) stubborn inertia, the feeling that nothing would work, and I'd lost all control over how much sleep I got. I've reached a point where I fucking hate it, so that's why I'm trying it again, I've go nothing to lose. I would highly recommend that your friend keep a...
Sleep log
and day log (for whether she uses caffeine/what time, any exercise (what time), naps (usually not recommended), etc...), maybe on the same page.
She can look up templates online to get an idea of what sort of info she feels it's relevant to include. The basic goal is to increase "sleep efficiency", the amount of time in bed spent sleeping. Insomnia began to fuck up my life because I made all the rookie mistakes: stayed too long in bed instead of just getting up and accepting I wouldn't sleep, didn't use any white noise until months afterward, started trying to sleep earlier (intuitive, but often counter-productive), exercising in the evenings, using screens before bed, and panicking at night, etc...
This shit's important. I've always felt fairly bad about my life, but insomnia has brought it to a new sense of hopelessness, and I've found the desire to bang my head against the walls or worse is very strong at 2 am. Even if I were to kill myself in the future, I'd rather do it well-rested than with a mind cracked by lack of sleep.
One last note: if she/someone goes with the restriction route, you absolutely need a log of some kind to track the data. I start with 6 to 6 hrs 15 minutes in bed: that is, I go to bed at 1:15, and get up at 7:15, regardless of how much sleep I actually get. Once I am absolutely exhausted with this, usually after 3-5 days or a week, I edge up by an increment of 15 minutes, now I go to sleep at, say 1:00. You move on this way gradually, until reaching a saner level of sleep.
 
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BlackPoppet

BlackPoppet

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Thank you for sharing that, it’s good to hear that it can work long term because it is often a person’s last hope for sleep!
I’m sorry you can’t sleep naturally, is that a significant reason for you joining this forum? Just out of curiosity, because I know for me, sleep issues can send my mood off the rails, never mind for someone like yourself who physically cannot sleep naturally.
:aw::hug:
Yes it is one of the reasons why I joined the forum. Insomnia has wrecked my mental health big time. You’re welcome. Zopiclone does work for me long term. It never fails me. It’s like a miracle drugs for me.
Thank you for your kind words. You don’t have to be sorry, unfortunately it is what it is. It’s a long story as to why I can’t sleep naturally. A lot of stress and me not feeling safe. I wouldn’t wish this condition on anyone. Cherish all the sleep you can get. It’s precious. People should never take it for granted.
It can really affect your mood if you can’t sleep or don’t get enough sleep. Ithas given me a mood disorder I swear. It can most definitely affect your mood. Hugs :hug:
 
GoBack

GoBack

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Apr 25, 2020
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Yes it is one of the reasons why I joined the forum. Insomnia has wrecked my mental health big time. You’re welcome. Zopiclone does work for me long term. It never fails me. It’s like a miracle drugs for me.
Thank you for your kind words. You don’t have to be sorry, unfortunately it is what it is. It’s a long story as to why I can’t sleep naturally. A lot of stress and me not feeling safe. I wouldn’t wish this condition on anyone. Cherish all the sleep you can get. It’s precious. People should never take it for granted.
It can really affect your mood if you can’t sleep or don’t get enough sleep. Ithas given me a mood disorder I swear. It can most definitely affect your mood. Hugs :hug:

Oh, stress and not feeling safe is how I stopped sleeping too. A few years now, it's wrecked my life and health. I'm not much fun to be around so I avoid people, haven't worked in so long I forget how.

I don't get regular sleep meds , I just get by on this and that. Doc's here are awful about sleep pills. I've given up in them, docs. Never been to a clinic though
 
madbananas

madbananas

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Apr 29, 2020
321
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Oh, stress and not feeling safe is how I stopped sleeping too. A few years now, it's wrecked my life and health. I'm not much fun to be around so I avoid people, haven't worked in so long I forget how.

I don't get regular sleep meds , I just get by on this and that. Doc's here are awful about sleep pills. I've given up in them, docs. Never been to a clinic though
Docs in my area are awful about sleeping pills too. :hug:
 
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GoBack

GoBack

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Apr 25, 2020
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Yes it is one of the reasons why I joined the forum. Insomnia has wrecked my mental health big time. You’re welcome. Zopiclone does work for me long term. It never fails me. It’s like a miracle drugs for me.
Thank you for your kind words. You don’t have to be sorry, unfortunately it is what it is. It’s a long story as to why I can’t sleep naturally. A lot of stress and me not feeling safe. I wouldn’t wish this condition on anyone. Cherish all the sleep you can get. It’s precious. People should never take it for granted.
It can really affect your mood if you can’t sleep or don’t get enough sleep. Ithas given me a mood disorder I swear. It can most definitely affect your mood. Hugs :hug:

Oh, stress and not feeling safe is how I stopped sleeping too. A few years now, it's wrecked my life and health. I'm not much fun to be around so I avoid people, haven't worked in so long I forget how.

I don't get regular sleep meds , I just get by on this and that. Doc's here are awful about sleep pills. I've given up in them, docs. Never been to a clinic though



Docs in my area are awful about sleeping pills too. :hug:

It's mind boggling isn't it, they'll give all sorts of crap out that might help me sleep a bit but cause really weird problems like muscle spasms but a sleeping pill?, For sleep? You must be joking
 
madbananas

madbananas

Specialist
Apr 29, 2020
321
769
Oh, stress and not feeling safe is how I stopped sleeping too. A few years now, it's wrecked my life and health. I'm not much fun to be around so I avoid people, haven't worked in so long I forget how.

I don't get regular sleep meds , I just get by on this and that. Doc's here are awful about sleep pills. I've given up in them, docs. Never been to a clinic though






It's mind boggling isn't it, they'll give all sorts of crap out that might help me sleep a bit but cause really weird problems like muscle spasms but a sleeping pill?, For sleep? You must be joking
Yeah. The most they have ever given me is a supposed sedative antihistamine *facepalm*.
And they put me on quetiapine to help my mood swings but with the main goal of helping me sleep. It didn’t help my mood swings at all, I did get to sleep with it but like you mentioned it gave me muscle spasms and restless legs. It was horrible.
 
BlackPoppet

BlackPoppet

Wise woman and Celtic sky person
Mar 7, 2020
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Oh, stress and not feeling safe is how I stopped sleeping too. A few years now, it's wrecked my life and health. I'm not much fun to be around so I avoid people, haven't worked in so long I forget how.

I don't get regular sleep meds , I just get by on this and that. Doc's here are awful about sleep pills. I've given up in them, docs. Never been to a clinic though






It's mind boggling isn't it, they'll give all sorts of crap out that might help me sleep a bit but cause really weird problems like muscle spasms but a sleeping pill?, For sleep? You must be joking
Yeah! They are loathe to give out sleeping pills usually, for fear of addiction. I’ve heard that they have prescribed Quetiapine to people who can’t sleep too. Yes!!! Quetiapine!!! Ridiculous!!
Im sorry to hear that you aren’t sleeping well. I’m always here if you need to talk, or offload. Hugs to you! :hug:
Yeah. The most they have ever given me is a supposed sedative antihistamine *facepalm*.
And they put me on quetiapine to help my mood swings but with the main goal of helping me sleep. It didn’t help my mood swings at all, I did get to sleep with it but like you mentioned it gave me muscle spasms and restless legs. It was horrible.
Was the sedative antihistamine called promethazine?
 
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GoBack

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Yes, @madbananas, @BlackPoppet quietapine, promethazine/phenergen, two horrible drugs. Out of body experience and not the good kind, muscle spasm s, just yack. Be better off staying awake.
 
madbananas

madbananas

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Yeah! They are loathe to give out sleeping pills usually, for fear of addiction. I’ve heard that they have prescribed Quetiapine to people who can’t sleep too. Yes!!! Quetiapine!!! Ridiculous!!
Im sorry to hear that you aren’t sleeping well. I’m always here if you need to talk, or offload. Hugs to you! :hug:

Was the sedative antihistamine called promethazine?
I can not remember but probably, that’s the typical one they like to dish out in my area haha
 
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BlackPoppet

BlackPoppet

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Yeah it’s madness!! Quetiapine is not supposed to be for sleep. Even though it does work for sleep.
I can not remember but probably, that’s the typical one they like to dish out in my area haha
Yes I’ve been put on Promethazine in the past. It doesn’t always work for sleep, but sometimes it does.
Yes, @madbananas, @BlackPoppet quietapine, promethazine/phenergen, two horrible drugs. Out of body experience and not the good kind, muscle spasm s, just yack. Be better off staying awake.
Yep been on both. Had a seizure on Promethazine once. Fell down some stairs. Still got the scar on my elbow to prove it.
 
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GoBack

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Yeah it’s madness!! Quetiapine is not supposed to be for sleep. Even though it does work for sleep.

Yes I’ve been put on Promethazine in the past. It doesn’t always work for sleep, but sometimes it does.

Yep been on both. Had a seizure on Promethazine once. Fell down some stairs. Still got the scar on my elbow to prove it.

Jesus it's bullshit. Met a woman in hospital in Xanax withdrawal, her first time, they gave her quietapine. She was a mess. No support or taper whatsoever.

Promethazine did weird stuff to me I'll never understand
 
Underscore

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The last four years I have had one week with no sleep, three years with four or five hours a night and six months or so with around one hour a night.
Hypnotics or sedatives will force you to sleep in the short term but potentially cause greater problems in the long term due to tolerance effects and endocrine changes.
These drugs are not a long term solution.
These days I'm on around 8 hours but in two or three shifts due to physical issues.
I have found that CBD oil helps calm me without sedation and allows me to sleep. This may be a placebo effect, but I don't care.
 
BlackPoppet

BlackPoppet

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Jesus it's bullshit. Met a woman in hospital in Xanax withdrawal, her first time, they gave her quietapine. She was a mess. No support or taper whatsoever.

Promethazine did weird stuff to me I'll never understand
They shouldn’t have given her Quetiapine! She should have been tapered off Xanax first. It can cause grand mal seizures if someone isn’t tapered off a Benzo. And to give her Quetiapine when she didn’t need it. Quetiapine renders a person a lobotomised zombie. Trust me I was on quetiapine for 2 and a half years. That stuff is brutal to the mind and body. The hospital were extremely negligent!!! Arseholes!!
The last four years I have had one week with no sleep, three years with four or five hours a night and six months or so with around one hour a night.
Hypnotics or sedatives will force you to sleep in the short term but potentially cause greater problems in the long term due to tolerance effects and endocrine changes.
These drugs are not a long term solution.
These days I'm on around 8 hours but in two or three shifts due to physical issues.
I have found that CBD oil helps calm me without sedation and allows me to sleep. This may be a placebo effect, but I don't care.
I like CBD oil. It does help with anxiety.
 
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GoBack

GoBack

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They shouldn’t have given her Quetiapine! She should have been tapered off Xanax first. It can cause grand mal seizures if someone isn’t tapered off a Benzo. And to give her Quetiapine when she didn’t need it. Quetiapine renders a person a lobotomised zombie. Trust me I was on quetiapine for 2 and a half years. That stuff is brutal to the mind and body. The hospital were extremely negligent!!! Arseholes!!

I know. It's this addiction thing. But giving people antipsychotics and anticonvulsants is causing worse damage. They couldn't give a flying fuck.

All this off label stuff... I know addiction is bad but permanent brain change is worse, I've had both. I would take the addiction everytime. At least I knew when I was getting back to myself, from the other stuff it hasn't happened yet
 
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WhiteDespair

WhiteDespair

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Ambien put me in the psych ward when I sleepwalked out a window. Worst 2 week vacation ever.
 
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BlackPoppet

BlackPoppet

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I know. It's this addiction thing. But giving people antipsychotics and anticonvulsants is causing worse damage. They couldn't give a flying fuck.

All this off label stuff... I know addiction is bad but permanent brain change is worse, I've had both. I would take the addiction everytime. At least I knew when I was getting back to myself, from the other stuff it hasn't happened yet
Yeah I would take the addition every time. Antipsychotic are poison. They should be used for 3-6 months max. Not the two and a half years I was on quetiapine. I felt lobotomised on it. Made me pre diabetic too. No one is taking responsibility and I couldn’t put a claim against the NHS. If I became diabetic... I would have just had to live with it. F...... antipsychotics!! I would never go on them again.
Addiction *
 
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