Formic acid+sulphuric acid method

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PeakyBlinder

PeakyBlinder

Member
Sep 6, 2018
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I feel an odd link/loyalty to do it the japanese way with charcoal. They inspired my interest, research, testing and I've even bought a small japanese car for the job. I can't let them down now, I'd feel such a traitor.

And of course the confimed success from here last week (no names) just adds even more evidence. I also don't fancy any formic fumes up my nose. Also ordering acids to who I live with will be tricky, it comes in hazard warning boxes all labled up incse of a van fire so the fire dept know what hazard they're dealing with. The people I live with always take the post in and sign for stuff. There is no way I could account for ordering such things.
You made me laugh with the first couple of lines. Don’t know why but I can see where your coming from. And also that I love Japanese culture.
 
Deutsch

Deutsch

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Aug 20, 2018
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on ebay a formic listing says you have to be a business, but you don't have to, i bought formic before from them, they just say that to discourage people i guess
 
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Joannf

Joannf

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Sulfuric has been ordered but a difficult time with formic (U.S.) here. Maybe send to business for personal delivery at work, but still questions about what formic is needed for in that particular industry; distributors are a pain here.
Formic is being used to exterminate the Varroa mites that kill bees... I suppose the acid is being diluted a lot and then sprayed. So you could if all else fails, learn a bit more about beeskeeping and get into that first ;)
 
Joannf

Joannf

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Does it matter if the ratio isnt exact you said 500ml formic and 1 litre sulphuric what if its off by a few ml
I've read all sorts from 50/50 to 1/3 - so what to believe ? I would say that 1 Formic to 2 Sulfuric may be safest.
 
Joannf

Joannf

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glass is best for most chemical stuff?
With Sulfuric and Formic, it's okay to use most plastic bottles or containers, like PVC or PET, you could use a large water bottle from any supermarket and just shake the stuff. Depending on how much you use there will be lots of acid vapor coming out though so this must be filtered somehow, the video below doesn't really mention this.
 
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Joannf

Joannf

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I am building a sort of "exit one" strategy inside the house for a worst case scenario, literally a gas chamber, with about 10 cubic meters of air (a small room we used as storage for clothing).
The reason is simple, you might want to use the method for more than one person, and take a pet with you who would feel lost and desperate without you... this poses several problems, for example how to produce more gas, and how to get rid of the acid vapor that, and this hasn't been mentioned a lot here, will be extremely irritating when you mix about 4 liters (a gallon) of formic with about double that volume of sulfuric acid.

First, where to mix it ? In the bathroom next door, in a gas canister inside the bathtub so nothing can go wrong in case of leakage, then lead 5 yards of 1' garden hose into the chamber (we drilled a hole through the wall). The 5 yards are in 5 sections in which we stuffed inlays for those kitchen extractor hoods, using the parts with the active coal on it.
5 yards of that should do most of the job but there's another plastic gas can at the outlet end of the tube, inside the gas chamber, a 5 gallon one into which the last part of the 1' tube leads, forcing the gas to pass through about 5 inches of wet rock wool (rock wool being used in the industry for acid vapor filtering), and a real mass of active coal pellets above that before finally being allowed to enter the room proper.

Now, how to mix ? We have several metal and plastic jerry cans (20 ltr/5 gallon) to choose from, so this still has to be decided, the steel jerry cans can be hermetically close (so the only way the gas can move is through the 1' hose) with one grip, which isn't so easily done for the plastic ones...
As to the concentration, well CO bonds to hemoglobin 300 times better than air oxygen, so a 50/50 mix in the little room would be literally overkill, but I'll dig for the calculations we made years ago and post them here once I find them.
 
Joannf

Joannf

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Hi Philistine: The formic acid in Canada is no more than 85% and I do not know if it will work. Do you know? I am also finding it difficult to get info. re. emphysema and the likelihood of success with CO., especially if I cannot see well enough to set things up properly. There would be little value in going into panic mode while semi-unconscious, and zooming away...kinda defeats the purpose, eh?
80 percent will work
 
Joannf

Joannf

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I don’t understand. Why do people bother so much with charcoal while there is this method?

Is it availability? Fear of acidic fumes? Fear of burns and what not?

People keep quoting this one article where a guy exited with this method. That guy had blood in his stomach, acid burns on his face. He must have drank the chems otherwise CO doesn’t do that.
Acid Fumes do. Pour acid into the loo or wherever and smell it from a yard away, and you may be able to estimate the pleasure of it.
 
S

Shinymeesh

Member
Mar 7, 2019
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My plan: 1 quart of sulfuric acid and 1 pint of formic acid. A rough 2 SA:1 FA ratio. I rent a car, drive somewhere isolated, then mix the two in a bucket in the back seat. I sit in the driver's seat and wait. I also put up a sign indicating that it is dangerous. Any suggestions?
 
T

ThisIsTheLastNight

Autism is killing me
Jan 29, 2019
57
169
Had mixed and survived 1L formic acid and 2L sulfuric acid in my car. Wrote my experience in carbon monoxide megathread in detail. Anyone who is interested in the method should read the review. In my experience the fumes of formic acid are so corrosive that you can't stand it in the car without a water filter. You will definitely get severe respiratory burns before you die. In addition, the chemical reaction without heat stops after a while.
 
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S

Shinymeesh

Member
Mar 7, 2019
32
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Had mixed and survived 1L formic acid and 2L sulfuric acid in my car. Wrote my experience in carbon monoxide megathread in detail. Anyone who is interested in the method should read the review. In my experience the fumes of formic acid are so corrosive that you can't stand it in the car without a water filter. You will definitely get severe respiratory burns before you die. In addition, the chemical reaction without heat stops after a while.
Dang. How do I do it then?
 
S

Shinymeesh

Member
Mar 7, 2019
32
37
If I knew how to do it safely with carbon monoxide I would not be here anymore. After what I had experienced, I simply can not rely on carbon monoxide. I'll try N.
I was now thinking of blocking my carotid artery.
 
J

Janica333

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Dec 5, 2018
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Only right, fast and painless ways for euthanasia is to do as euthanasia guide books advice (not changing or leaving out anything in them).
 
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R

Roberto

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Jan 19, 2019
518
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I don't know about the exact size, I'd recommend it to be as small as possible so the gas can reach lethal levels faster. It could be done in a car or a small sealed room etc. I'm doing it in a very small wardrobe.
Always remember to put warnings outside to prevent anyone to get damaged. In the doors and/or windows
 
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GeorgeJL

GeorgeJL

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Mar 7, 2019
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You know this is actually a pretty good method. Except for one thing. People that find you would be as risk of getting sick or even dying. Which is why Dr Death hasn't updated it in a while in the PPH.
 
F

Fgtexican

Member
May 13, 2019
6
1
Houston, TX
So I've been reading this thread for a few days. Doing my best to pull all the necessary bits together. I just received my formic acid today. That was an easy purchase online.
I've noticed some have suggested using One Shot drain cleaner. It looks to have a 90-92% level of sulphuric acid to it. I've seen some say that's enough to work.
But is that for certain?
I am planning on building a COGENS with a mask, as what I've read so far it looks like the CO generated would all be ingested by my body.
I am planning on laying down, starting a movie on my tv, and leaving that way.
Would it still present a danger to others if I use a mask in this manner?
Also, is there any place I can see the entire video they sample earlier in this thread?
Also, I've seen people say water isn't good enough to wash the acid fumes. Can someone with solid information on that please help me?
 
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C

cappuccinogirl

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Aug 11, 2018
160
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I wonder why this method is so rare? I hardly see anyone talk about it. Both acids are easily obtained, in a way it's similar to the detergent method only this method produces CO instead of H2S.

I'm planning to do this tomorrow, if anyone has any advice I would really appreciate it! It's really nerve wracking preparing to end things, gosh, I'm so nervous and excited at the same time. I have no idea what to write in my note, or even if I should write one.

Here are some articles I found if anyone's interested:
https://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/05/31/1054177766490.html
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15894855

I don't have that device which drips the acid slowly but I figured pouring it slowly while holding my breath would work as well?
Z
I wonder why this method is so rare? I hardly see anyone talk about it. Both acids are easily obtained, in a way it's similar to the detergent method only this method produces CO instead of H2S.

I'm planning to do this tomorrow, if anyone has any advice I would really appreciate it! It's really nerve wracking preparing to end things, gosh, I'm so nervous and excited at the same time. I have no idea what to write in my note, or even if I should write one.

Here are some articles I found if anyone's interested:
https://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/05/31/1054177766490.html
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15894855

I don't have that device which drips the acid slowly but I figured pouring it slowly while holding my breath would work as well?
Hi I've been looking into it too. I got a water filter jug to just put them in . Don't know if it makes any difference to just mixing but closest to p pill. Sulphuric acid getting harder to get in UK only thing. From some tests I've done produces good Co levels quite quickly for quite a while. Was planning on small bedroom.
 
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Joannf

Joannf

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Formic and Sulfuric explained.
Long rant again, so sorry - for folks with attention spans longer tham 8 seconds.
Okay. The folks who managed to mentally parse this CO-generation process on this thread all seem to be gone - the ones who didn't, or didn't manage to get the acids (why?) are still here ? Or not ? Whatever. I'll post a setup with photos over this coming weekend, but first want to make a few things clear.
You do not need twice the amount of sulfuric that you need of formic - only when you use the setup the Australian guy on the GULPS video shows.
This is because the setup is a bit fragile, and they only move the glass containing the acids very conservatively.
The H2SO4 is heavier than the Formic, and hesitates to thoroughly mix, it "passes though" the formic and sinks down, ceasing to react.
If you mixed them in a shaker, a thorough mix would be easy, capisce ?
Also, the water content of either acid is irrelevant if you thoroughly mix... you could use 38% battery acid and 55% formic for beehives and still get enough CO, the reaction would take longer and you would have to make sure to constantly move the liquids, that's all.
Water is in the acids you buy, and there's water being produced by the reaction, no way around it. It will eventually slow down the reaction a lot, but hardly fully shut it off. So you need to mix, and the mix shown here is very rudimentary. Just saying... best to have high concentrations of course.
Our Australian chaps are trying to keep it simple, right ?

What they actually say - even if it sounds different - is that by mixing 50ml each of both acids thoroughly, you can generate 16 liters of CO.
Don't be irritated by them using 150ml of sulfuric, that's only because their way of use they have decided on here - I will use a method without sny breathing apparatuses, and my setup will be bigger. However. Let's keep things simple and calculate with much security margin.
You get about 25 liters of CO by mixing 100 ml of both acids optimally, or 250 liters from mixing one liter each, or 2.5 hektoliters from mixing ten/ten, for which you would need a somewhat larger container... I already tested that with a 20; metal jerrycan. Works well !
CO will bind to your hemoglobin at least 200 times better than the oxygen in the air, so if you are in a space of 10 cubic meters, one cubic meter, which we'll equate with 100 liters for simplicity's sake, should do what ?
I'm having a migraine right now (not from thinking about CO!), so could any of you please try to follow my reasoning here and opine ?
Thank you.
I'll be back...
Oh, here's the video once again, for your convenience
 
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Avicii

Avicii

Looking for a partner PM me
Sep 4, 2018
367
667
UK aged 40
I wonder why this method is so rare? I hardly see anyone talk about it. Both acids are easily obtained, in a way it's similar to the detergent method only this method produces CO instead of H2S.

I'm planning to do this tomorrow, if anyone has any advice I would really appreciate it! It's really nerve wracking preparing to end things, gosh, I'm so nervous and excited at the same time. I have no idea what to write in my note, or even if I should write one.

Here are some articles I found if anyone's interested:
https://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/05/31/1054177766490.html
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15894855

I don't have that device which drips the acid slowly but I figured pouring it slowly while holding my breath would work as well?
are you doing this in hotel or home ??? Safe journey when you do it
 
B

Bok

Member
Jun 26, 2019
21
4
Formic and Sulfuric explained.
Long rant again, so sorry - for folks with attention spans longer tham 8 seconds.
Okay. The folks who managed to mentally parse this CO-generation process on this thread all seem to be gone - the ones who didn't, or didn't manage to get the acids (why?) are still here ? Or not ? Whatever. I'll post a setup with photos over this coming weekend, but first want to make a few things clear.
You do not need twice the amount of sulfuric that you need of formic - only when you use the setup the Australian guy on the GULPS video shows.
This is because the setup is a bit fragile, and they only move the glass containing the acids very conservatively.
The H2SO4 is heavier than the Formic, and hesitates to thoroughly mix, it "passes though" the formic and sinks down, ceasing to react.
If you mixed them in a shaker, a thorough mix would be easy, capisce ?
Also, the water content of either acid is irrelevant if you thoroughly mix... you could use 38% battery acid and 55% formic for beehives and still get enough CO, the reaction would take longer and you would have to make sure to constantly move the liquids, that's all.
Water is in the acids you buy, and there's water being produced by the reaction, no way around it. It will eventually slow down the reaction a lot, but hardly fully shut it off. So you need to mix, and the mix shown here is very rudimentary. Just saying... best to have high concentrations of course.
Our Australian chaps are trying to keep it simple, right ?

What they actually say - even if it sounds different - is that by mixing 50ml each of both acids thoroughly, you can generate 16 liters of CO.
Don't be irritated by them using 150ml of sulfuric, that's only because their way of use they have decided on here - I will use a method without sny breathing apparatuses, and my setup will be bigger. However. Let's keep things simple and calculate with much security margin.
You get about 25 liters of CO by mixing 100 ml of both acids optimally, or 250 liters from mixing one liter each, or 2.6 hektoliters from mixing ten/ten, for which you would need a somewhat larger container... I already tested that with a 20; metal jerrycan. Works well !
CO will bind to your hemoglobin at least 200 times better than the oxygen in the air, so if you are in a space of 10 cubic meters, one cubic meter, which we'll equate with 100 liters for simplicity's sake, should do what ?
I'm having a migraine right now (not from thinking about CO!), so could any of you please try to follow my reasoning here and opine ?
Thank you.
I'll be back...
Oh, here's the video once again, for your convenience
Looking forward to your suggestions , especially how you ‘filter’ the acids fumes out of the co?? Please send pics. Thanks
 
Joannf

Joannf

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Looking forward to your suggestions , especially how you ‘filter’ the acids fumes out of the co?? Please send pics. Thanks
I will... did you watch the video ? My main concern is the reaction itself... I found a rather ideal mixing container, but I will mix in one room, filter in another with a 3m 1" hose in between, now when I mix 20 liters of the acids, creating almost 5000 liters of CO, the expanding gas should hopefully not blow up my container... after all, the gas needs to pass through the hose, which leads through the wall at 1m height, then enter the filtering container on the floor from below and under water... so the water pressure should not be greater than the resistance the container with the acids is offering to the expanding gas. I have no data to estimate these potentials, while chemistry classes are kind of long ago, and I wasn't very eager. The filtering itself is not a problem, my filter is large and has three elements, water with liquid soap, several layers of humid rock wool and active coal filters above that. My problem is always not overdoing stuff.
I will have to test this yet again - and I probably don't really need the entire 20 liters anyway. Do I need 5 cubic meters of CO in a 10 cbm room ? I doubt it...
 
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Joannf

Joannf

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One liter of CO is how many PPM ?
Offtopic : this forum is spooky insofar as posts cannot be edited after 12 hours or so... which creates many single post and lots of confusion - obviously, users find it hard to read all the posts and combine the data into valid conclusions. It would be a good idea to adapt this - I've been on social media for years, it's not impossible...

This post is about that black unicorn of the Carbon Monoxide World, the infamous Parts Per Million, PPM. It's unfortunately not a precise measure like millimeters or yards... and so it will be hard for most to accurately compare the use of the typical charcoal and acid methods, as insiders of both are commonly using liters of CO produced for one and PPM needed for the other... you may or may not have noticed this.
I viewed COGEN and GULPS materials yesterday and came to the conclusion that the acid method will ideally yield 25 liters of gas from perfectly mixing 100 ml of 85% formic with 100 ml of sulfuric acids, possibly more, or 250 liters from one liter of the acids each. Now let's assume that you are using one liter each inside a room of 10 cubic meters, what will that mean in PPM ? It means 250 l of delicious CO (so far unfortunately mixed with ghastly acid fumes that must be filtered out, more about this later), and that again means 1/4th of the volume of one cubic meter, or 2.5% of the volume of the room. 10000 PPM would be one percent of a given volume - is this correct ? Does this correspond with other data we know, for example that CO will bind to haemoglobin molecules about 200-300 times better than normal oxygen ? Do calculate for yourself. I'm known to commit nasty errors of magnitude when calculating in my mind, but I don't think it's necessary to use the calculator for this - so please tell me if I'm wrong... if not, we may have the answer we were looking for ;)

Caveats : This is an orientational simplification only, you will always fail if you do not execute the methods in question perfectly, which will in doubt lead to the consequence of your not being able to execute yourself. In particular, this would mean insufficient mixing of the acid (this seems to be an issue!) for the acid method and (certainly an issue!) irregular burning of coals for the charcoal method.
 
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B

Bok

Member
Jun 26, 2019
21
4
Very interesting I would be worried abt mixing so much acid in one container, it will exploded or at the least blow the hose off.Do you have or could u take a picture of you filter
Thanks
 
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P

poof

Wizard
Aug 15, 2018
607
1,197
Formic and Sulfuric explained.
Long rant again, so sorry - for folks with attention spans longer tham 8 seconds.
Okay. The folks who managed to mentally parse this CO-generation process on this thread all seem to be gone - the ones who didn't, or didn't manage to get the acids (why?) are still here ? Or not ? Whatever. I'll post a setup with photos over this coming weekend, but first want to make a few things clear.
You do not need twice the amount of sulfuric that you need of formic - only when you use the setup the Australian guy on the GULPS video shows.
This is because the setup is a bit fragile, and they only move the glass containing the acids very conservatively.
The H2SO4 is heavier than the Formic, and hesitates to thoroughly mix, it "passes though" the formic and sinks down, ceasing to react.
If you mixed them in a shaker, a thorough mix would be easy, capisce ?
Also, the water content of either acid is irrelevant if you thoroughly mix... you could use 38% battery acid and 55% formic for beehives and still get enough CO, the reaction would take longer and you would have to make sure to constantly move the liquids, that's all.
Water is in the acids you buy, and there's water being produced by the reaction, no way around it. It will eventually slow down the reaction a lot, but hardly fully shut it off. So you need to mix, and the mix shown here is very rudimentary. Just saying... best to have high concentrations of course.
Our Australian chaps are trying to keep it simple, right ?

What they actually say - even if it sounds different - is that by mixing 50ml each of both acids thoroughly, you can generate 16 liters of CO.
Don't be irritated by them using 150ml of sulfuric, that's only because their way of use they have decided on here - I will use a method without sny breathing apparatuses, and my setup will be bigger. However. Let's keep things simple and calculate with much security margin.
You get about 25 liters of CO by mixing 100 ml of both acids optimally, or 250 liters from mixing one liter each, or 2.5 hektoliters from mixing ten/ten, for which you would need a somewhat larger container... I already tested that with a 20; metal jerrycan. Works well !
CO will bind to your hemoglobin at least 200 times better than the oxygen in the air, so if you are in a space of 10 cubic meters, one cubic meter, which we'll equate with 100 liters for simplicity's sake, should do what ?
I'm having a migraine right now (not from thinking about CO!), so could any of you please try to follow my reasoning here and opine ?
Thank you.
I'll be back...
Oh, here's the video once again, for your convenience
Thank you so much for the long rant...your questions...and your answers.
 
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Joannf

Joannf

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Very interesting I would be worried abt mixing so much acid in one container, it will exploded or at the least blow the hose off.Do you have or could u take a picture of you filter
Thanks
Why would a larger quantity in a large container explode, while a smaller one in a small container would not ? So I found out with a small no-nonsense setup.

I used 500 mls of acids each in a 5 l empty water bottle today and another for the filter, connecte with abt 2 yards of old 1/4 inch garden hose, stuck in two holes made with a soldering iron, and tried it - this would resemble 5 liters each in a 50 liter container, correct me if I'm wrong. I chose a corner of the garden we use for compost and to deposit the wood cuts spring thru summer, and I took lots of precautions, wearing full cover rain protective gear, rubber gloves and even a diver's mask. But it was all overkill, this simple setup worked like a charm and instantly...
See how I solved the "sulfuric drop into formic" problem, I first filled in the formic, then added a small trash bag into which I poured the sulfuric, then screwed on the lid - all plastic, flexible, it kept the bag hanging suspended out of reach of the formic till I cut off the trash bag close to the lid, unscrewed the lid slightly - bingo.
The tortured bag slipped at one side, opening up and spilling the acid.
Shhhhh it went... bubbling in the filter ceased after about ten minutes, you can shake the acid bottle to start it up again, for maybe another 5 minutes, to exhaust your acids. The filter was three layers of rock 5 cm wool, bottle was then filled 1/3rd with water, added some liquid soap
I didn't bother with measuring the PPMs this time but sniffed the result and it was exactly as the soap smells, no acid fumes at all.
Understood ? Questions ?
 

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