Formic acid+sulphuric acid method

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Catriona

Catriona

Member
Apr 29, 2018
8
40
I wonder why this method is so rare? I hardly see anyone talk about it. Both acids are easily obtained, in a way it's similar to the detergent method only this method produces CO instead of H2S.

I'm planning to do this tomorrow, if anyone has any advice I would really appreciate it! It's really nerve wracking preparing to end things, gosh, I'm so nervous and excited at the same time. I have no idea what to write in my note, or even if I should write one.

Here are some articles I found if anyone's interested:
https://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/05/31/1054177766490.html
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15894855

I don't have that device which drips the acid slowly but I figured pouring it slowly while holding my breath would work as well?
 
LookMomImFlying

LookMomImFlying

-
Apr 23, 2018
83
260
It sounds like a good method. But I would need more details on how to build the apparatus to be confident in it. The article don't provide enough instructions. Good luck and hope you find peace!
 
Catriona

Catriona

Member
Apr 29, 2018
8
40
It sounds like a good method. But I would need more details on how to build the apparatus to be confident in it. The article don't provide enough instructions. Good luck and hope you find peace!

It looks something like this, I don't know how it's made though. I think the reason people use that is because they don't want to fall unconscious while the acid is being poured. It should be ok if I hold my breath while pouring it though.
Thank you, good luck to you too! ^-^
 
Catriona

Catriona

Member
Apr 29, 2018
8
40
I also wanted to use this method, but couldn't get my hands on the acids. If you don't mind my asking, where did you find them?
I got the formic from eBay (UK) and the sulphuric is from a drain cleaner called One Shot, from Amazon.
The formic acid should be at least 85% pure and the sulphuric at least 90%. The drain cleaner is 91%. Also make sure the amount of sulphuric is double the amount of formic. For a small closed space 500ml formic and 1 litre sulphuric is good. Good luck! ^-^
 
P

Pyrrhocryptus

New Member
Apr 28, 2018
1
1
I got the formic from eBay (UK) and the sulphuric is from a drain cleaner called One Shot, from Amazon.
The formic acid should be at least 85% pure and the sulphuric at least 90%. The drain cleaner is 91%. Also make sure the amount of sulphuric is double the amount of formic. For a small closed space 500ml formic and 1 litre sulphuric is good. Good luck! ^-^
How small should the closed spaced be?
 
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Catriona

Catriona

Member
Apr 29, 2018
8
40
How small should the closed spaced be?
I don't know about the exact size, I'd recommend it to be as small as possible so the gas can reach lethal levels faster. It could be done in a car or a small sealed room etc. I'm doing it in a very small wardrobe.
 
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El Topo

El Topo

(---)
Apr 21, 2018
489
1,237
I got the formic from eBay (UK) and the sulphuric is from a drain cleaner called One Shot, from Amazon.
The formic acid should be at least 85% pure and the sulphuric at least 90%. The drain cleaner is 91%. Also make sure the amount of sulphuric is double the amount of formic. For a small closed space 500ml formic and 1 litre sulphuric is good. Good luck! ^-^
I just wanted to let the fellow Americans know that One Shot drain cleaner can't be ordered from Amazon UK.
 
B

Battered_Seoul

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Jun 13, 2018
154
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I wonder if Catriona succeeded with this method. I am also in the UK and was considering using it. One worry was that a forensic report mentioned pulmonary injury due to formic acid vapour.
 
PhilistineEars

PhilistineEars

Member
Jul 1, 2018
62
138
Sulfuric has been ordered but a difficult time with formic (U.S.) here. Maybe send to business for personal delivery at work, but still questions about what formic is needed for in that particular industry; distributors are a pain here.
 
YaYaDr

YaYaDr

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Jun 26, 2018
131
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Sulfuric has been ordered but a difficult time with formic (U.S.) here. Maybe send to business for personal delivery at work, but still questions about what formic is needed for in that particular industry; distributors are a pain here.
I believe you can buy it on ebay.
 
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PhilistineEars

PhilistineEars

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Jul 1, 2018
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FA881065-8EEF-457A-86EC-6F209A6E5BAB.jpeg
I believe you can buy it on ebay.
Yes, thanks. I also found it from the same place I ordered sulfuric from, just after the fact. It’s only 95% but the stoichiometric calcs still say it’s enough to get the desired result.

Once the other components arrive I’ll finish it and perhaps post a picture. Need to order my CO meter to verify concentration during test. But so far so good with construction.

Sale of the house has been delayed (should have closed last week) due to buyer issues-damned FHA process
 
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YaYaDr

YaYaDr

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Jun 26, 2018
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Yes, thanks. I also found it from the same place I ordered sulfuric from, just after the fact. It’s only 95% but the stoichiometric calcs still say it’s enough to get the desired result.

Once the other components arrive I’ll finish it and perhaps post a picture. Need to order my CO meter to verify concentration during test. But so far so good with construction.

Sale of the house has been delayed (should have closed last week) due to buyer issues-damned FHA process
Good luck my friend. I hope your tests are successful.
 
PhilistineEars

PhilistineEars

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Jul 1, 2018
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As I feared, only reliable CO detection devices capable of 10k ppm are fixed units with direct feed power. I’m sure it will work I just like to be certain.
 
DerSonnenschein

DerSonnenschein

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Jul 3, 2018
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If I understand correctly, to synthesize Co all you have to do is mixing the sulfuric and formic acid? No fancy extra steps? Sounds to good to be true, I might try it too If can obtain the acids.

Does anyone know whether the endproduct is pure CO or is maybe some additional chemical?
 
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Battered_Seoul

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Jun 13, 2018
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If I understand correctly, to synthesize Co all you have to do is mixing the sulfuric and formic acid? No fancy extra steps? Sounds to good to be true, I might try it too If can obtain the acids.

Does anyone know whether the endproduct is pure CO or is maybe some additional chemical?
Chemical equation is HCO₂H + H₂SO₄ -> H₂SO₄ + H₂O + CO (g). The sulphuric acid is progressively diluted by the water produced by the dehydration of the formic acid.

I've read reports suggesting pulmonary injury caused by formic acid vapour, but that may have been due to the volumes involved (2.5 L) which is excessive.

Contributors on 8chan seem to suggest simply manually pouring 500ml of formic into 1L sulphuric acid will work.
 
PhilistineEars

PhilistineEars

Member
Jul 1, 2018
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This is just chemistry (of which I completely understand; it’s relating to people that confounds).

Vapors are typically formed as a result of either the exothermic reaction or being aerosolised due to rapid (violent) mixing (think heavy bubbling, fizzing, etc.).

That is why (merely precautionary) a water bath is used to wash the gases and produce clean CO delivery into the breathable environment.

My purchases (nearly 4 L of each) is WAY excessive and is not all for ctb (some for experimenting, some for repeatability testing or validation, then the rest for ctb).
 
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Battered_Seoul

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Jun 13, 2018
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This is just chemistry (of which I completely understand; it’s relating to people that confounds).

Vapors are typically formed as a result of either the exothermic reaction or being aerosolised due to rapid (violent) mixing (think heavy bubbling, fizzing, etc.).

That is why (merely precautionary) a water bath is used to wash the gases and produce clean CO delivery into the breathable environment.

My purchases (nearly 4 L of each) is WAY excessive and is not all for ctb (some for experimenting, some for repeatability testing or validation, then the rest for ctb).
Thank you, very helpful. Please keep us updated with your testing. Are you planning to construct something resembling the COGEN apparatus? I am profoundly inept technically, so will probably just rely on manual pouring.
 
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DerSonnenschein

DerSonnenschein

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Jul 3, 2018
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Thank you, very helpful. Please keep us updated with your testing. Are you planning to construct something resembling the COGEN apparatus? I am profoundly inept technically, so will probably just rely on manual pouring.
What is a COGEN apparatus?
 
PhilistineEars

PhilistineEars

Member
Jul 1, 2018
62
138
Thank you, very helpful. Please keep us updated with your testing. Are you planning to construct something resembling the COGEN apparatus? I am profoundly inept technically, so will probably just rely on manual pouring.
Yes. I’ve started construction and awaiting parts from amazon. I’m using a 2gal water jug for the bath. I’ll have two reaction chambers just for reliability.

Really haven’t thought about where to do it yet. I know in my car with signs posted but not sure what my surroundings will be. I will have a stiff drink with me to lower the barrier to act though. That and music, but if the concentrations are going to be what I think they’re going to be then I won’t be listening very long before unconsciousness.

I nearly forgot - adult diapers. Strange to consider but rather not leave a mess for people. Unless, of course, my body isn’t discovered for a few days in a hot car... hmm is there such a thing as preset emails?
 
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