[Method] Exit bag and inert gas megathread

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GerMann

GerMann

year of birth: 1972
Nov 30, 2018
233
416
Did you look on ebay/amazon already? Take one with 0 - 30 liter/min (argon/n2)
 
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pane

pane

Specialist
Apr 29, 2019
335
538
Already found such a regulator for argon with the ability to precisely set 15 liters per minute



View attachment 18853
I need to point out something. The inert gasses like oxygen, nitrogen and argon are measured in what's called "molecular weight". Oxygen and nitrogen have very similar molecular weights which is why you can use an oxygen regulator with a tank of nitrogen and get the 15 LPM needed for this method.

However argon has a heavier molecular weight than those other two gasses. Consequently - based on statements other members have made on various threads here - you need a flow rate of 17-19 LPM if using argon for the exit bag technique.
 
D

Deadhead Frank

Member
Aug 29, 2019
96
152
Hello fellow sufferers, so I just need to get the tank and regulator and I will have everything for this method. Already made the exit bad with cord and cordstop. So here is my question for whoever can help me. I know this has been talked about but I just want to make sure I’m doing it right and don’t want to mess up.
1. What size tank of nitrogen should I get to make sure that I get this right and have enough gas?
2. How heavy is this tank going to be? Concerned about being able to lift or move it because of my physical limitations.
3. I might still have a regulator for co2 if so I wonder if it would work?
Thanks I appreciate any help
 
B

bornsinner

Veteran
Oct 26, 2019
112
62
Ontario canada
Hello fellow sufferers, so I just need to get the tank and regulator and I will have everything for this method. Already made the exit bad with cord and cordstop. So here is my question for whoever can help me. I know this has been talked about but I just want to make sure I’m doing it right and don’t want to mess up.
1. What size tank of nitrogen should I get to make sure that I get this right and have enough gas?
2. How heavy is this tank going to be? Concerned about being able to lift or move it because of my physical limitations.
3. I might still have a regulator for co2 if so I wonder if it would work?
Thanks I appreciate any help
I will answer these the best I could
1.go to the welding supply store and ask for the smallest tank. (depending where u go u can ask for the smallest one and they will give u a pretty big one)
2.if u have physical limitations depending some welding store they can deliver it for u
3. I don't know. every tank is different. it might fit it might not fit.

what country do u live in? so I can get a good understanding to help u better :)
 
M

morningdew

Veteran
Jul 8, 2019
159
223
Hello fellow sufferers, so I just need to get the tank and regulator and I will have everything for this method. Already made the exit bad with cord and cordstop. So here is my question for whoever can help me. I know this has been talked about but I just want to make sure I’m doing it right and don’t want to mess up.
1. What size tank of nitrogen should I get to make sure that I get this right and have enough gas?
2. How heavy is this tank going to be? Concerned about being able to lift or move it because of my physical limitations.
3. I might still have a regulator for co2 if so I wonder if it would work?
Thanks I appreciate any help
Hey Frank..
1. according to pphb you'll need a 20 cu ft. which is a rather small tank. for example, a scuba size tank is around 60 cu ft.
2. Im guessing around 10-15 lbs
3. nitrogen tanks use a CGA580 valve. A well known resource for regulator with the correct connection is max dog brewing
 
D

Deadhead Frank

Member
Aug 29, 2019
96
152
Hi bornsinner, thanks for the info. Hi Morningdew, good to hear from you again. Thanks for trying to help me. I’m going to go this week and get the tank I guess from a welding shop. I am in the us by the way. I hope they don’t start asking a bunch of questions but if so I’ll just tell them I am using it for brewing beer. The beer making process and for the kegging and dispensing. They probably won’t go any farther with there questioning after that I hope not. I actually used to brew beer before I ruined my body so I do know about it. The thing is though I don’t think you would need pure 99% nitrogen for beer but maybe it’s possible. I used co2 to dispense out of my kegerator and got a nitrogen mix a couple times too but like I said it was a mix of co2 and nitrogen. It was for dispensing like beers on nitro. Has more of a silky smooth taste and feel. However that doesn’t matter because I won’t be drinking anymore beers after I’m dead anyway. Can barely still do it now. The welding guys probably won’t know this anyway unless they brew beer. As far as the regulator I could go with max dawg like you said I was just hoping to find a cheaper one. I really don’t want to mess this up and wake up with brain damage and not know who I am anymore and then be too stupid to actually ctb again for real.
Hey Frank..
1. according to pphb you'll need a 20 cu ft. which is a rather small tank. for example, a scuba size tank is around 60 cu ft.
2. Im guessing around 10-15 lbs
3. nitrogen tanks use a CGA580 valve. A well known resource for regulator with the correct connection is max dog brewing
Hi morningdew, I’ll let you know how this goes with trying to get the tank this week.
BTW is it cool if I pm you sometime?
 
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M

morningdew

Veteran
Jul 8, 2019
159
223
Hi bornsinner, thanks for the info. Hi Morningdew, good to hear from you again. Thanks for trying to help me. I’m going to go this week and get the tank I guess from a welding shop. I am in the us by the way. I hope they don’t start asking a bunch of questions but if so I’ll just tell them I am using it for brewing beer. The beer making process and for the kegging and dispensing. They probably won’t go any farther with there questioning after that I hope not. I actually used to brew beer before I ruined my body so I do know about it. The thing is though I don’t think you would need pure 99% nitrogen for beer but maybe it’s possible. I used co2 to dispense out of my kegerator and got a nitrogen mix a couple times too but like I said it was a mix of co2 and nitrogen. It was for dispensing like beers on nitro. Has more of a silky smooth taste and feel. However that doesn’t matter because I won’t be drinking anymore beers after I’m dead anyway. Can barely still do it now. The welding guys probably won’t know this anyway unless they brew beer. As far as the regulator I could go with max dawg like you said I was just hoping to find a cheaper one. I really don’t want to mess this up and wake up with brain damage and not know who I am anymore and then be too stupid to actually ctb again for real.

Hi morningdew, I’ll let you know how this goes with trying to get the tank this week.
BTW is it cool if I pm you sometime?
Sure, anytime!
 
D

Deadhead Frank

Member
Aug 29, 2019
96
152
Sure, anytime!
Okay I know this will sound stupid but I haven’t sent a pm before and am trying to figure it out. So would I just click on your name and then under profile it looks like I could type something there? Would that be the pm then?
 
passenger27

passenger27

In my beginning is my end.
Aug 25, 2019
644
661
49
United States
2 big tanks in the US is over $700 for pure helium at a welding supply shop if money's an issue. Party tanks are useless because they're 20% oxygen.
 
T

Thatdude

Life is temporary, death is permanent
Sep 26, 2019
249
312
For the following, how do you make sure the bag doesn't break due to the amount of gas going in? Like it seems with this you are blocking off the gas from going out the bottom.


Always use a quality flow meter, which has a scale on it which is calibrated for the specific type of gas you are using. The scales are all different for each of: nitrogen, argon and helium. Don't try to use a flow meter for argon and use a conversion factor to nitrogen. Why? Because every manufacturer has a different conversion factor, you might be using the wrong one. These conversion factors vary widely between manufacturers. We discussed this in another thread. If you are using nitrogen, it is the safest to buy a flow meter calibrated specifically for nitrogen. (they are not as common as He and Argon, but they DO exist.
Thanks for the heads up, I didn't know about this and I've been researching this for a bit.
 
B

bornsinner

Veteran
Oct 26, 2019
112
62
Ontario canada
For the following, how do you make sure the bag doesn't break due to the amount of gas going in? Like it seems with this you are blocking off the gas from going out the bottom.






Thanks for the heads up, I didn't know about this and I've been researching this for a bit.
the bag does not burst. I had a failed attempt a couple of weeks ago and I empty out a pretty big tank without the bag bursting. u are going to need a massive tank before the exit bag will burst
 
Stan

Stan

Factoid Hunter
Aug 29, 2019
2,599
7,351
United Kingdom
I don’t know how to adjust the gas flow of 15 liters per minute, in our country there are no such reducers as max dog.

Maybe someone has thoughts?
I have high hopes for this method.
You are looking for something called a regulator. Easily obtained in big global online shops or where the gas canisters are sold.
 
S

silentvoice

Member
Nov 23, 2019
13
14
How much would this all cost, roughly speaking?
 
color_me_gone

color_me_gone

Sun is rising
Dec 27, 2018
714
5,883
67
Centreville, Virginia
How much would this all cost, roughly speaking?
Roughly $300USA, varies according to country, and quality / size of what you procure.
The big items:
  1. Regulator / flow control
  2. Gas canister (filled with gas)
The regulator / flow control is the biggie, better ones cost more, lower quality cost less.
(quality is recommended)
The gas itself is not that expensive, but the canister IS. (bigger canisters cost more, smaller cost less.
(3 cubic feet (USA) is recommended, with plenty to spare for test runs.)
(2 cubic feet (USA) is minimum recommended, and could just barely accomplish the task.)
Please realize that the volumes mentioned above are compressed volume.
The actual amount of gas at atmospheric pressure is about 600 cubic liters for 3 cubic feet compressed.
 
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S

silentvoice

Member
Nov 23, 2019
13
14
Roughly $300USA, varies according to country, and quality / size of what you procure.
The big items:
  1. Regulator / flow control
  2. Gas canister (filled with gas)
The regulator / flow control is the biggie, better ones cost more, lower quality cost less.
(quality is recommended)
The gas itself is not that expensive, but the canister IS. (bigger canisters cost more, smaller cost less.
(3 cubic feet (USA) is recommended, with plenty to spare for test runs.)
(2 cubic feet (USA) is minimum recommended, and could just barely accomplish the task.)
Please realize that the volumes mentioned above are compressed volume.
The actual amount of gas at atmospheric pressure is about 600 cubic liters for 3 cubic feet compressed.
Thanks dude! Unfortunately it's too rich for my blood so I'm gonna have to find another way.
 
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D

Deadhead Frank

Member
Aug 29, 2019
96
152
Hello, I have found this regulator and was wondering if anybody thinks that it will work fine? It sounds to me like it would. It’s a double gauge nitrogen regulator with duck bill check valve. Taprite model 742 hpn. It can be found on beveragefactory.com. The one gauge goes from 0-60 psi. So I guess I would just set it at 15? This would mean 15 liters per min? It also has a 5/16 barb fitting. This would be where I would put the tubbing on. I was going to use quarter inch tubing but I don’t guess it matters what size tubbing as long as it’s set to 15 liter per minute? Also this one is only $66.95. What do you think?
 
color_me_gone

color_me_gone

Sun is rising
Dec 27, 2018
714
5,883
67
Centreville, Virginia
That regulator does not have an associated flow control, it is just a regulator.
The gauge on the left tells how how much pressure remains in the tank.
The gauge at the top tells the output pressure at the 5/16 barb fitting. that does NOT relate to a flow rate.
 
fightingsioux

fightingsioux

Specialist
Oct 22, 2019
368
1,258
That regulator does not have an associated flow control, it is just a regulator.
The gauge on the left tells how how much pressure remains in the tank.
The gauge at the top tells the output pressure at the 5/16 barb fitting. that does NOT relate to a flow rate.
This is incorrect.

The flow control is the round piece in the center. You turn it to control the flow from the tank.

Yes, the gauge on the left shows the pressure in the tank. Not important in this use.

The gauge on the top shows the output pressure IN BLACK, and the flow rate IN RED.

This regulator will work just fine.

PS: Not necessary info, but the output pressure does indeed directly relate to the flow rate when the same diameter nozzle is used. However, it's a somewhat complicated mathematical formula to derive one from the other, that's why they place both scales on the gauge.
 
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AnnaJaspers

AnnaJaspers

-
Jul 2, 2019
217
580
Does anyone have any updates re nitrogen vs argon?
 
fightingsioux

fightingsioux

Specialist
Oct 22, 2019
368
1,258
Does anyone have any updates re nitrogen vs argon?
They will both do EXACTLY the same thing, for the use we're talking about here, if that's what you mean.

If you're talking about availability, I can't really say. I live in a major city in the midwest; the biggest welding supply store is the nationally known Airgas. Most of the time they won't ask you anything: if the clerk does, just have a simple story ready: My husband/brother/friend is into brewing beer, he asked me to pick up a tank.

If you're 17 years old and look it you're going to have problems.
 
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AnnaJaspers

AnnaJaspers

-
Jul 2, 2019
217
580
They will both do EXACTLY the same thing, for the use we're talking about here, if that's what you mean.

If you're talking about availability, I can't really say. I live in a major city in the midwest; the biggest welding supply store is the nationally known Airgas. Most of the time they won't ask you anything: if the clerk does, just have a simple story ready: My husband/brother/friend is into brewing beer, he asked me to pick-up a tank.

If you're 17 years old and look it you're going to have problems.
Thanks for this reassurance, that's what I thought. I don't know, it's just that ARGON sounds so unsexy, you know lol. This has been my method for quite some time and I had always planned to use nitrogen but my online supplier isn't shipping it anymore for reasons stated in the PPH. I'd rather not have to go to a welding store with a "story" but if I must I must.
They will both do EXACTLY the same thing, for the use we're talking about here, if that's what you mean.

If you're talking about availability, I can't really say. I live in a major city in the midwest; the biggest welding supply store is the nationally known Airgas. Most of the time they won't ask you anything: if the clerk does, just have a simple story ready: My husband/brother/friend is into brewing beer, he asked me to pick-up a tank.

If you're 17 years old and look it you're going to have problems.
Wait, here's another question, sorry. I have the nitrogen regulator from Exit (Max Dog Brewing). It's actually a medical grade O2 regulator. Will it work with Argon? God, I'm so stupid, appreciate your help.
 
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fightingsioux

fightingsioux

Specialist
Oct 22, 2019
368
1,258
Thanks for this reassurance, that's what I thought. I don't know, it's just that ARGON sounds so unsexy, you know lol. This has been my method for quite some time and I had always planned to use nitrogen but my online supplier isn't shipping it anymore for reasons stated in the PPH. I'd rather not have to go to a welding store with a "story" but if I must I must.


Wait, here's another question, sorry. I have the nitrogen regulator from Exit (Max Dog Brewing). It's actually a medical grade O2 regulator. Will it work with Argon? God, I'm so stupid, appreciate your help.
Yes, no problem. Feel free to message me with any other questions.
 
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frees

frees

swoosh
Sep 6, 2019
117
117
Europe
Does helium with a cpap mask work?
Use an exit bag. Mask is possible, but with a high chance of failure and even dangerous. It is not straightforward like connecting the tube to the mask to make this work reliably. If you have to ask, use an exit bag.
 
S

Sparks35

Member
Dec 3, 2019
8
0
This is incorrect.

The flow control is the round piece in the center. You turn it to control the flow from the tank.

Yes, the gauge on the left shows the pressure in the tank. Not important in this use.

The gauge on the top shows the output pressure IN BLACK, and the flow rate IN RED.

This regulator will work just fine.

PS: Not necessary info, but the output pressure does indeed directly relate to the flow rate when the same diameter nozzle is used. However, it's a somewhat complicated mathematical formula to derive one from the other, that's why they place both scales on the gauge.
Are you 100% certain of this? You said it shows the flow rate in RED, which says PSI on the gauge. Do you have a source for this? Not that I think you’re being dishonest by any means. I just need more reassurance.

I have a local brewery supply store that carries the similar Taprite 742N, do you think this model should work?

Thank you.
 
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fightingsioux

fightingsioux

Specialist
Oct 22, 2019
368
1,258
Are you 100% certain of this? You said it shows the flow rate in RED, which says PSI on the gauge. Do you have a source for this? No that I think you’re being dishonest by any means. I just need more reassurance.

I have a local brewery supply store that carries the similar Taprite 742N, do you think this model should work?

Thank you.
100% certain. Just ask at store. Yes, will work.
 
frees

frees

swoosh
Sep 6, 2019
117
117
Europe
100% certain. Just ask at store. Yes, will work.
By looking at the (bad) pictures of those Taprite 742 i don't think so. These look like pure pressure gauges wihtout a volume per minute scale. (Just psi/MPa and bar?)

Pressure regulators with the additional feature of flow measurement via gas outlet through a constrictor are quite rare.
 
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