[Method] Exit bag and inert gas megathread

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Seeking Peace

Member
Sep 14, 2019
11
10
@color_me_gone's post is where i read about 28 minutes being the minimum for body's death to occur. 40 minute is quoted as a sufficient time window for death to occur with Nitrogen method. But can anyone quote the source for why 40 minutes is enough to guarantee death for nitrogen asphyxia? Or is there at least a reasoning for why roughly 40 minutes enough to achieve death?

Found the earlier post by @Adrian within the current megathread, regarding my question of 'is 40 minutes enough?':

The above quote says 2-40 minutes (and an average of 13 minutes) for death to occur.

Is there a verifiable source or calculated reasoning behind these numbers? Any insight would greatly be appreciated


@how2getout

I'm not sure if you've already found this information, but in case it's useful to anyone:

In 2006, a book entitled "Guide to a Humane Self-Chosen Death" was published by the WOZZ Foundation. This was a Dutch organization of medical professionals, and when it was originally published, the book was only made available to other medical professionals and right to die organizations, not to the general public.

It concluded that the original plastic bag + sedative method (without any inert gas) was prone to failure and was not recommended. However, the exit bag + helium method, if properly carried out, was highly effective.

One of the co-authors, Boudewijn Chabot, MD, went on to write other books and now allows a free download of Guide to a Humane Self-Chosen Death.


https://dignifieddying.com/dignified-dying/publications/


"Publications in English that are out of stock and can be downloaded for free.

Warning: some of these books contain information on lethal medications that is outdated.

For the most recent information one should consult Dignified Dying. A Guide."


Guide to a Humane Self-Chosen Death:

 
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S

Seeking Peace

Member
Sep 14, 2019
11
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The chapter on helium begins on page 65.

The contents of this chapter are informed by eyewitness reports on 119 self-chosen deaths from helium inhalation.
The overall method is pretty much the same as what is written in Final Exit, Five Last Acts, and PPeH (except that PPeH adds the advice of hyperventilating for 1-2 minutes to pre-lower the CO2 in your blood, then exhaling one last time before bringing the bag down over your head).

After fully exhaling and bringing the bag down, the book says your first breath should be a deep one. Then breathe normally. "Unconsciousness will often come within 5 breaths. In some cases, unconsciousness has been reported after the second breath."

Page 65:

When breathing pure helium inside a plastic bag, unconsciousness follows after about five breaths. In 62 cases where "time to unconsciousness" was reported, the average was 35 seconds (range 10 to 120 seconds).

Page 72:

In cases where unconsciousness took longer than average, there were reports of difficulties with gas flow, leaking tube or nozzle connections, or improper seals between the bag and the neck (e.g. hair not tied up or bag not properly pulled down). Proper preparation and practice runs would eliminate most of these difficulties.
Elapsed “time to death” was reported in 108 cases. The average was 13 minutes (range was 2 to 40 minutes).

In about 50% of the reported cases, the patient took sleep medication and an assistant pulled down the plastic bag and turned on the helium.
Page 70:

Avoid breathing helium during practice runs. Breathing helium inside a plastic bag for only 30 seconds can cause serious and irreversible brain injury
 
S

Seeking Peace

Member
Sep 14, 2019
11
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Guide to a Humane Self-Chosen Death had five principle co-authors. One of the co-authors, Russell D. Ogden, has published case studies of helium suicides in peer-reviewed medical journals. Out of all of the authors of the books that I know of, I believe he is the only one that has.

Many times, all you can find for free are just abstracts of medical journal case studies, but there's at least two case studies by him where the entire article is available.


Assisted suicide by oxygen deprivation with helium at a Swiss right-to-die organisation (2010)



Asphyxial Suicide with Helium and a Plastic Bag (2002)


https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/Asphyxial-suicide-with-helium-and-a-plastic-bag.-Ogden-Wooten/d9ca9cda3377cffbf2ab198a4a3c7a09a9fb4693




I would be interested in reading this one, if anyone can find a full text PDF (the PDF linked below is just a title page):

Observation of two suicides by helium inhalation in a prefilled environment (2010)

 
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Shakespear's Brother

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Sep 10, 2019
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Seeking Peace

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Sep 14, 2019
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Thanks for looking. My ISP blocks that sight. I could probably get around it, but I'm a little leery to try lol.
 
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deltagod

Member
Sep 15, 2019
5
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hello. i am vincent from Asia. English language is not my first language but i will try my best to use English to communicate

I have progressive insomnia and the situation get worse rapidly , unfortunately, even my Psychiatrist doesn't know what is going on. I suspect i have sporadic Fatal insomnia.

Basically i have 22L high pressure helium tank which can fill up 100 balloons (100% pure helium). Just want to know is it enough to kill myself and how long does it take?? Some people it will take 2 to 40 mins. I want to make sure the time to prevent brain damage
 
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Shakespear's Brother

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Sep 10, 2019
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Thanks for looking. My ISP blocks that sight. I could probably get around it, but I'm a little leery to try lol.
You're welcome. Library Genesis is really useful. If your ISP has blocked that particular domain, you may be able to access it via another of the project's mirrors, it's sort of like whack-a-mole with them. Most stuff that is paywalled elsewhere I can find on there. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Library_Genesis
 
Righttodie

Righttodie

Maybe in another life
Apr 10, 2019
161
350
hello. i am vincent from Asia. English language is not my first language but i will try my best to use English to communicate

I have progressive insomnia and the situation get worse rapidly , unfortunately, even my Psychiatrist doesn't know what is going on. I suspect i have sporadic Fatal insomnia.

Basically i have 22L high pressure helium tank which can fill up 100 balloons (100% pure helium). Just want to know is it enough to kill myself and how long does it take?? Some people it will take 2 to 40 mins. I want to make sure the time to prevent brain damage
Hey Vincent, sorry to hear about your condition. I don't know the amount of gas a 22 l helium tank contains.
It's recommended that a 20 cubic foot tank be used, or two of those for it to be lethal.
You can use a convertor to check how much 22L will be in cubic foot
 
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deltagod

Member
Sep 15, 2019
5
1
Hey Vincent, sorry to hear about your condition. I don't know the amount of gas a 22 l helium tank contains.
It's recommended that a 20 cubic foot tank be used, or two of those for it to be lethal.
You can use a convertor to check how much 22L will be in cubic foot

Thanks Righttodie, Can you provide the convertor? It is because i cant find it in the internet.Thanks
 
Righttodie

Righttodie

Maybe in another life
Apr 10, 2019
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350
Thanks Righttodie, Can you provide the convertor? It is because i cant find it in the internet.Thanks
Even i cant link it. I just typed "litres to cubic feet" in Google and it came.
 
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deltagod

Member
Sep 15, 2019
5
1
Even i cant link it. I just typed "litres to cubic feet" in Google and it came.


MY 22L high pressure helium tank can fill approximately 100 balloons, compared with 20 cubic foot tank which can fill 67 balloons.
It should be enough helium to do it.


Righttodie, May i ask more questions?? how about the size of the exit bag (40x45cm enough)?? and the sound of the helium?? it is because i am living with my parents, if the sound is too loud, probably they will discover at the midnight
 
Righttodie

Righttodie

Maybe in another life
Apr 10, 2019
161
350

MY 22L high pressure helium tank can fill approximately 100 balloons, compared with 20 cubic foot tank which can fill 67 balloons.
It should be enough helium to do it.


Righttodie, May i ask more questions?? how about the size of the exit bag (40x45cm enough)?? and the sound of the helium?? it is because i am living with my parents, if the sound is too loud, probably they will discover at the midnight
"The ideal size of the bag for deliverance without
the use of helium is 19" by 23". For the helium gas
technique a larger bag is better, something like 22" by 36",
to allow more gas to accumulate."

That is what the book says.
You will have to find a way to mask the sound with music or something
 
D

deltagod

Member
Sep 15, 2019
5
1
"The ideal size of the bag for deliverance without
the use of helium is 19" by 23". For the helium gas
technique a larger bag is better, something like 22" by 36",
to allow more gas to accumulate."

That is what the book says.
You will have to find a way to mask the sound with music or something

Thanks, buddy, one more question, how long does it take??
 
totallyscr3w3d

totallyscr3w3d

New Member
Sep 17, 2019
1
1
Hey everyone,

Just a side note, I called cyberweld since they no longer sell full nitrogen tanks on their site and they said it was because people were using them for reasons they weren't supposed to. Anyone recommend a different supplier?

Also, has anyone used a 40 cubic foot cylinder with the max dog regulator? Does it fit?
 
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Righttodie

Righttodie

Maybe in another life
Apr 10, 2019
161
350
Thanks, buddy, one more question, how long does it take??
Try reading this thread from the start. It should answer all your questions.
It should not take long to pass out. Within seconds. To die, it takes longer.
 
D

deltagod

Member
Sep 15, 2019
5
1
Try reading this thread from the start. It should answer all your questions.
It should not take long to pass out. Within seconds. To die, it takes longer.

Allrighty, i have read all of the thread from the start. I have a question about the gap which allows CO2 escape from the bag. I am not really sure how big of the gap.
 
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frees

frees

swoosh
Sep 6, 2019
117
108
Europe
I have a question about the gap which allows CO2 escape from the bag. I am not really sure how big of the gap.
When using an exit bag just set the lenght of the elastic so that there is only light pressure on your neck and it is not too tight when you wear it on your forehead.
 
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Seeking Peace

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Sep 14, 2019
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Here, hope your ISP does not block anonfile:

Thanks for helping out. I can get to that link, but when I go there, and click on download, all it does is redirect me to another ad site. I've had similar issues with trying to download things from the Resources page here. I was able to download the May 2018 PPeH hosted on Google Drive, but the other versions on sites like mega, pdf archive, and loadto didn't work.

Similarly, the only version of Five Last Acts I could access was on scribd (where you could read, but not download for free), but that's been removed on scribd very recently.

Other people have had trouble as well. Maybe the issue is being on a mobile device?

I stumbled across a thread where chronicpainnomore had uploaded a copy of the case study directly to the forum, and was able to download it.

I think I might be able to upload it as an attachment by replying here and choosing "Attach Files" on the lower left of the reply window.

Here goes:

Observation of two suicides by helium inhalation in a prefilled environment (2010)

--------------------


Ok, that seemed to work! Maybe others could upload the latest PPeH, Five Last Acts (2015), and Final Exit (2015) as attachments for those of us having issues downloading from the Resources section?

I've got most of the info I need, but if I hadn't been able to get alternate sources, I would have been pretty clueless. This thread is awesome for information not covered in the books (of which there is a lot), but those guides give you the fundamentals. You can tell from some of the questions here that some people haven't been exposed to the basics, and maybe difficulty accessing the materials is part of the reason.
 

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frees

frees

swoosh
Sep 6, 2019
117
108
Europe
Maybe others could upload the latest PPeH, Five Last Acts (2015), and Final Exit (2015) as attachments
Clear this beforehand with staff. It might be that they will host this directly on SS. Also the newer editions of PPH and Last Acts are badly ripped and are >100MB. Site will have a size limit.

Most people don't have trouble with the links in the resource thread. Try a different browser with adblock, try on a computer.
 
Sirius

Sirius

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Jul 10, 2019
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"The ideal size of the bag for deliverance without
the use of helium is 19" by 23". For the helium gas
technique a larger bag is better, something like 22" by 36",
to allow more gas to accumulate."

That is what the book says.
You will have to find a way to mask the sound with music or something
I have one of the old FEN exit hoods designed for helium. Can I use that with Nitro?
 
frees

frees

swoosh
Sep 6, 2019
117
108
Europe
I have one of the old FEN exit hoods designed for helium. Can I use that with Nitro?
Sure. All inert gases work exactly the same for our purpose.

Edit: regarding the quote by Righttodie - which book, what edition? Sounds like a guess from the early phase of switching the recommended gas to nitrogen. That helium is lighter than other gases has no practical effect when flushing a volume like an exit bag at 15 lpm. Generally a hood should not be so small that it barely fits the head, but more than, say, 15 liters volume is unnecessary excess. The FEN hood has a good track record, no use to second guess oneself.
 
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Sirius

Sirius

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Sure. All inert gases work exactly the same for our purpose.

Edit: regarding the quote by Righttodie - which book, what edition? Sounds like a guess from the early phase of switching the recommended gas to nitrogen. That helium is lighter than other gases has no practical effect when flushing a volume like an exit bag at 15 lpm. Generally a hood should not be so small that it barely fits the head, but more than, say, 15 liters volume is unnecessary excess. The FEN hood has a good track record, no use to second guess oneself.
THANKS for the considered response. Now, it seems, I have to find a new source for the Nitro
 
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Seeking Peace

Member
Sep 14, 2019
11
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Clear this beforehand with staff. It might be that they will host this directly on SS. Also the newer editions of PPH and Last Acts are badly ripped and are >100MB. Site will have a size limit.

Most people don't have trouble with the links in the resource thread. Try a different browser with adblock, try on a computer.

I didn't realize they were so large. Maybe that's why the May 2018 PPeH on Google Drive is broken up into 18 sections. You're probably right about trying it on PC, but that's not an option right now.


I called cyberweld since they no longer sell full nitrogen tanks on their site and they said it was because people were using them for reasons they weren't supposed to. Anyone recommend a different supplier?

Also, has anyone used a 40 cubic foot cylinder with the max dog regulator? Does it fit?

That is terrible news about cyberweld. Hopefully there are other options.

Looking at the Max Dog info, it says it is a "Fitted with CGA-580 soft-nose 'O' ring (excl. UK version) enabling connection to cylinder"

A 40 cubic foot nitrogen tank will have a CGA-580 connection, as will a 20 cubic foot tank. That's pretty much standard in the US. I'm not sure what the "soft nose O ring" on the Max Dog is. Maybe it's some sort of gasket to form a seal.


-------------------------------------


If anyone else is having trouble with some of the download sites in the Resources section, maybe try this one:

May 2018 PPeH

https://drive.google.com/drive/mobile/folders/1-2NX0jVOjCrOJycMsy3KLXHMSGL3MSnV

There's 18 different PDF's that you can view or download.

"05 - Hypoxic Death & The Exit Bag" contains everything about the Exit Bag method, and is only 42 pages long, which makes it a less intimidating read than staring down the 450 + pages of the entire PPeH.

I'm going to try and attach it for anyone else having issues with the other sites, just in case the Google Drive link ever stops working. The file size is 12 mb, so not so bad.
 

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Emerald

Emerald

Despairing
Sep 16, 2019
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Ireland
I can only find nitrogen cylinders at 30 litres max in UK/Ireland. Nowhere near the 600 litres required. What size would the cylinder have to be for 600 litres?

I'm looking at a nitrogen cylinder supplier that was suggested to me:
Cylinder content 2L at 200 bar
Size 45cm * 10cm
Content 0.42m3

No idea what these figures mean.
 
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frees

frees

swoosh
Sep 6, 2019
117
108
Europe
I can only find nitrogen cylinders at 30 litres max in UK/Ireland. Nowhere near the 600 litres required. What size would the cylinder have to be for 600 litres?
Depends on the pressure in the cylinder. To calculate how much gas a cylinder contains you multiply the volume of the cylinder by the pressure in bar. A 30 litre cylinder at 230 bar contains 6900 litres at atmospheric pressure for example.
 
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Emerald

Emerald

Despairing
Sep 16, 2019
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Have you thought about the helium way it says it’s pure
The major manufacturers began to add oxygen recently so it's not as reliable. 80% helium 20% oxygen.

Needs to be nearer 99% helium.
Have you thought about the helium way it says it’s pure
It says pure but I'm not sure. Its hard to know if it really is.
Depends on the pressure in the cylinder. To calculate how much gas a cylinder contains you multiply the volume of the cylinder by the pressure in bar. A 30 litre cylinder at 230 bar contains 6900 litres at atmospheric pressure for example.
Do you know what a 2 litre at 200 bar would be?
 
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