[Method] Exit bag and inert gas megathread

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Eweforia

Eweforia

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Jul 27, 2019
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Update on N tank and regulator:
I purchased the $80 Hobart valve (https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/hobart-flow-gauge-mig-regulator). The important reasons that the Hobart regulator will work are because it has a gauge that measures liters per minute and will reach 15 LPM; it has a barb fitting to which a length of tubing can be attached; and it has a standard CGA 580 bullet-shaped connector with external threads that will allow it to be attached to the nitrogen tank. This was much less expensive than the $300 MaxDog regulator. Because it is an argon regulator, I will need to nudge the flow up to 19 to 22 LPM.

I purchased a 20 ft3 N2 tank at my local Airgas for US$126 plus $29 for the N2. I can't open the valve because they closed it too tightly after filling. I need to find help on that, which is highly irritating. Then I need to practice how to achieve a 18-19 LPM flow (thanks @TiredHorse for such great instruction). At 19 to 22 LPM, there will be enough N2 in this tank to flow for 29 or 25 minutes, respectively.
 
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MG_49

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I really wished I was able to get this method to work for me. Unfortunately I'm not sure. If I don't tie my hands SI WILL kick in before it works, and it could be very dangerous, depending on when I abort (brain damage) If I tie my hands after placing the bag around my neck, i'm worried I will panic and start to hyperventilate, and it might trigger my hypercapnic alarm.
 
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Hush Sweet Charlotte

Hush Sweet Charlotte

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Let us be mindful that despite the cooperation between the 2 entities, there are disagreements between Exit International and Final Exit Network. That blog is circa 2006 before there were some "issues" with Pulmonary patients.
Hi Sirius, the post by Derek Humphry is from 2017 so maybe Final Exit do still think it's a viable option.. Do you know what the reported issues have been with pulmonary patients? In the PPeH I think PN says it will still work but take longer and allow more time to abort due to panic. Are those the issues you have come across?
 
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Sirius

Sirius

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Hi Sirius, the post by Derek Humphry is from 2017 so maybe Final Exit do still think it's a viable option.. Do you know what the reported issues have been with pulmonary patients? In the PPeH I think PN says it will still work but take longer and allow more time to abort due to panic. Are those the issues you have come across?
I was never a guide to a Pulmonary patient. Just luck of the draw. I am not sure, since I've been away from FEN for awhile now, IF they really, actually did see problems when using this method on Pulmonary patients. It all chalks up to- DO NOT MAKE A MISTAKE AND MAKE IT WORSE ! I am certain if you questioned FEN or Exit (must be a member) they would site CO2 buildup and the possible inability to draw in the gas to be effective. IF you go to the most recent PPHb update, you will see Exit suggest having a spirometry test ( measures patient's lung function) and taking the medications to open/improve the lungs pre exit.
My Mum, who had terrible COPD, and for whom I first reached out to FEN was aHUGE concern to their medical director of the time, for just those reasons. She ultimately died of herCOPD because I was as unsuccessful then, as I am now, in getting barbiturate
 
Hush Sweet Charlotte

Hush Sweet Charlotte

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I was never a guide to a Pulmonary patient. Just luck of the draw. I am not sure, since I've been away from FEN for awhile now, IF they really, actually did see problems when using this method on Pulmonary patients. It all chalks up to- DO NOT MAKE A MISTAKE AND MAKE IT WORSE ! I am certain if you questioned FEN or Exit (must be a member) they would site CO2 buildup and the possible inability to draw in the gas to be effective. IF you go to the most recent PPHb update, you will see Exit suggest having a spirometry test ( measures patient's lung function) and taking the medications to open/improve the lungs pre exit.
My Mum, who had terrible COPD, and for whom I first reached out to FEN was aHUGE concern to their medical director of the time, for just those reasons. She ultimately died of herCOPD because I was as unsuccessful then, as I am now, in getting barbiturate
Thanks for replying to me Sirius - yes that makes sense. I have a large tank and am planning to set it to a higher flow rate in case I need to flush out any more CO2 than usual, but there is still the issue of maybe not being able to exchange O2 for N2 very well or quickly. Very sorry to hear about your mum and wish they could have come up with something else to help.
 
Sirius

Sirius

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Thanks for replying to me Sirius - yes that makes sense. I have a large tank and am planning to set it to a higher flow rate in case I need to flush out any more CO2 than usual, but there is still the issue of maybe not being able to exchange O2 for N2 very well or quickly. Very sorry to hear about your mum and wish they could have come up with something else to help.
If you meet the criteria, why not join FEN and get the guidance?
 
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Hush Sweet Charlotte

Hush Sweet Charlotte

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If you meet the criteria, why not join FEN and get the guidance?
Thanks Sirius. I thought they were only active in the US and so it's not an option for those in other countries... besides I'm not terminally ill but living with godawful chronic illnesses that are largely undiagnosed, so I don't think they'd help me anyway!
 
Righttodie

Righttodie

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Having read this thread, I have come to understand that the cylinder's dimensions aren't always proportional to their gas capacity (if I got that understood right)

I am in a south east Asian country and got a chart sent by a supplier which shows the gas capacity in relation to the dimensions of the cylinder. It might help anyone else if they are wondering what cylinder they may need.

Screenshot_2019-08-23-10-10-59-00.png
 
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Righttodie

Righttodie

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Food for thought.

Regarding contamination of tanks.

Anything we should be worried about or can make sure to see if there is any sort of contamination(oil) that is talked about a lot when cylinders and regulators are mentioned ?

How we may avoid it, how do things get contaminated and how to resolve if we encounter something that is contaminated.
 
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how2toGetout

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The whole point of using an inert gas like nitrogen is that it DOESN'T trigger the hypercapnic response. This is caused by the build-up of carbon dioxide in the body and/or in the air immediately around you that you're breathing, creating the sensation of "not getting any air" which induces a panic response in people.

By using an inert gas what you're doing essentially is creating an oxygen-free environment around your head inside the bag.

As I understand it, the human body can't detect the lack of oxygen in the surrounding air. The inert gas/bag method is based on that fact and consequently if you do everything right you'll go unconscious a few moments after pulling down the bag over your head and die 5-20 minutes later on average.

What Sirius is referring to are minor jerking and twitching movements the body naturally makes as part of the death process. I believe Sirius said he was a "facilitator" for Exit many years ago and witnessed several suicides.
I'm not sure the smaller tank vs. bigger tank is an issue because if done properly the inert gas is supposed to induce unconsciousness within several moments of pulling the exit bag down over your head, eventually putting you in a coma due to lack of oxygen to the brain then leading to death within 5-30 minutes.
@pane,

i have been reading that "40 minutes" is enough to guarantee death (or CTB) in nitrogen method.

A random question came to mind: is 40 minutes really enough for sure?

If someone finds me at 45 minutes after i go under nitrogen hypoxia, and if the exit bag gets removed and resuscitation attempts (e.g. CPR, rescue team coming, etc.) are made, will that thwart the body from guaranteeing ? Is it possible to suffer from brain damage, if i get resuscitated and then somehow the body is not dead completely (i.e. major organs like heart and lungs somehow recovers from temporary dead state)?

What would be the time duration that would guarantee death/ctb? (i.e. the death of major organs like heart and lung; because brain would die for sure before heart and lung, correct me if i'm wrong)

In other words, question is: For how long not being found would be enough to be completely arrive at death?

I tried checking other threads to find answer to the question, such as: https://sanctionedsuicide.com/threads/i-met-death-today.990/post-11284

I also tried reading a quora article like the following regarding this question: https://www.quora.com/Can-inhaling-pure-nitrogen-kill-someone-instantly

In that quora article, the most upvoted answer (that quotes “use Nitrogen safely”, Chemical engineering Progress March 2012, p 44–48 ) says about 8 minutes for 100% fatality in 6-8% oxygen environment (which is probably more than the amount of O2 that the exit bag will have after O2 being inhaled or being pushed out by nitrogen coming into the exit bag).

So is a 40 minute really enough for guaranteeing death, based on reading articles & threads like the above ones?

Just trying to mildly question/challenge where the 40 minute time window comes from (i've read about the 40 minute time window, appearing in the first post by TiredHorse in the **Exit bag and inert gas megathread**: https://sanctionedsuicide.com/threads/exit-bag-and-inert-gas-megathread.8393/).

I can "feel" that 40 minute is not just a number made up randomly, but just want to see where that number originated from or which rationale brought the time window issue to that number.

If anyone could provide/cite more sources to back up the "40 minute", it would be greatly appreciated.
--------------------------




Hmm... for safety reasons, not least that the only place I can store the cylinder is next to my bed (and I'm planning to still be here as long as possible), I would prefer to use helium instead of n2. Mainly in case of leaks leaving me vegetablised.

Is there a way to store the cylinder to prevent any gas leaking out over time does anyone know?

Still the problem is the only flowmeter available in the UK seems to be for argon. I tried to follow the calculation links Adrian posted earlier but they only made me wish I hadn't spent my life in the arts instead of figuring out how to do sums. I wonder if the argon flowmeter is even suitable for n2, though it would seem much more equivalent.
Question about Helium, compared to Nitrogen:

There is no risk of brain damage when using Helium (pure) method, compared to Nitrogen (pure) method?
 
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Eweforia

Eweforia

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Once we get the 40 minute question resolved, my next question is this: I purchased a 20 cubic foot nitrogen tank and a flow regulator calibrated for argon. To adjust for the difference in gas density, I plan to nudge the flow up from the suggested 15 L/min to somewhere between 19-22 L/min. I calculate that at those flow rates, that 20 cubic foot nitrogen tank will flow for between 25-29 minutes. That is considerably less than 40 minutes. I seriously don't want to have to buy a larger tank or figure out how to split the flow between two 20 cubic foot tanks. So the question is will a 20 cubic foot tank be sufficient to get the job done if there is zero chance of being rescued?
 
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how2toGetout

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Once we get the 40 minute question resolved, my next question is this: I purchased a 20 cubic foot nitrogen tank and a flow regulator calibrated for argon. To adjust for the difference in gas density, I plan to nudge the flow up from the suggested 15 L/min to somewhere between 19-22 L/min. I calculate that at those flow rates, that 20 cubic foot nitrogen tank will flow for between 25-29 minutes. That is considerably less than 40 minutes. I seriously don't want to have to buy a larger tank or figure out how to split the flow between two 20 cubic foot tanks. So the question is will a 20 cubic foot tank be sufficient to get the job done if there is zero chance of being rescued?
I have same question as Eweforia.

Can two tanks of 20 cubic feet (of Nitrogen, Argon, or any inert gas) be used instead of 1 single tank?
How should the flow rate be adjusted for each tank? Would each tank have half the rate of recommended flow rate (so 15 Lpm divided by 2, so 7.5 Lpm for each tank when using 2 tanks?)


@Eweforia, i read somewhere on this megathread (Exit bag and inert gas megathread) that 28 minute is probably not enough and is risk of permanent brain damage or vegetated state
 
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how2toGetout

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Starved of oxygen, cells in your body begin to die, everywhere, including the brain.
Within a couple of minutes after you become unconscious, a significant amount of brain damage has already occurred.
However, the body does not die completely until 28 to 40 minutes after unconsciousness.
If, for some reason, the flow was interrupted, the bag disturbed, the hose kicked off, whatever, and the body were to start receiving oxygen again, you could live, but be anywhere from mildly to severely brain damaged, ie: vegetable.
@color_me_gone's post is where i read about 28 minutes being the minimum for body's death to occur. 40 minute is quoted as a sufficient time window for death to occur with Nitrogen method. But can anyone quote the source for why 40 minutes is enough to guarantee death for nitrogen asphyxia? Or is there at least a reasoning for why roughly 40 minutes enough to achieve death?



Found the earlier post by @Adrian within the current megathread, regarding my question of 'is 40 minutes enough?':
In this post I would like to discuss the challenge of controlling the flow of the inert gas. The post has dual intent: to get someone to review my calculations and spot mistakes if any, and to help others with theirs.

Sources: post by TiredHorse that started this thread, TPP Handbook, Five Last Acts, Final Exit.

I'll skip the part with constructing the bag, that is covered enough, and will go straight to the gas (Helium/Nitrogen, with Helium being my choice) and tubings.

I'm going to use metric system throughout. My imperial friends can just remember that 1 inch is 2.54 cm, and 1 cu ft is 28 liters.

Recommended flow
Recommended "Letal dose" by varied sources is 125..250 liters. This being inert gas, it isn't letal per se, as it works by pushing away oxygen. So this dose is just amount of inert gas that is enough to maintain big enough flow for big enough time.

How much flow is big enough? 10-15 liters per minute. If it is too little, carbon dioxide may not be evacuated fast enough and panic will happen, or the bag can stick to nose/mouth, causing unpleasant experience.

How much time is long enough? Time to unconsciousness is on average 25 seconds (10-120 seconds), and time to death is on average 13 minutes (2-40 minutes). I did not find where the point of no return is, i.e. whether the flow needs to be stable up until the death, or can be stopped sooner. Sources recommend gas to last for 20 minutes.

From here we can see how important it is to set the right flow: too little, and you are up to very unpeasant experience, too much, and gas runs out too soon, causing you to survive but have permament brain damage (I could not find info on how likely this is, and how that brain damage will manifest itself - info appreciated).

View attachment 4573

I'll talk in a moment about how to control gas flow, but first let's think how we can measure it, to ensure we set it up correctly.

Standard small balloon has diameter of 9 inch. This is 0.2286 meters. Radius is 0.114 meters. Volume is (=4/3*pi*r^3) 6 liters. That means once everything is set up, you can connect balloon to your tubing, and see how quickly it inflates, and calculate you effective flow. I.e. if balloon inflates in 20 seconds, flow is 18 liters per minute. Call it a poor man's flow meter.

Knowing balloon size, you can also calculate tank volume in case they provide it's capacity in balloons. I.e. if they say tank can fill 200 9 inch balloons, you can calculate that it has capacity of 1200 liters. It is safer though to get industrual tank that specifies volume in standard liters.

View attachment 4574

Another important consideration is whether the gas is pure. There have been reports of balloon gas sold being not pure Helium, but diluted with air. They do so to save money, and also to prevent suicides. The way I handled it, is by purchasing oxygen meter, inflating a balloon from each of the tanks, and putting oxygen meter sensor inside the balloon. Measurement shows less than 1% oxygen, so gas is pure in my case.

I've got three tanks here, with volumes of ~300, ~900, and ~2400 liters. Let's calculate flow required if using either of these.

View attachment 4575

As we see, if I were to use the smallest tank, I need to control flow very precisely, and it is too easy to make it too small, or too large, causing failure. So bigger tank is preferred. With biggest tank I have the most flexibility.

Once I set up flow control, I can measure the flow using a balloon method described earlier.

Next post: how to control the flow.
The above quote says 2-40 minutes (and an average of 13 minutes) for death to occur.

Is there a verifiable source or calculated reasoning behind these numbers? Any insight would greatly be appreciated
 
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Sirius

Sirius

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@color_me_gone's post is where i read about 28 minutes being the minimum for body's death to occur. 40 minute is quoted as a sufficient time window for death to occur with Nitrogen method. But can anyone quote the source for why 40 minutes is enough to guarantee death for nitrogen asphyxia? Or is there at least a reasoning for why roughly 40 minutes enough to achieve death?



Found the earlier post by @Adrian within the current megathread, regarding my question of 'is 40 minutes enough?':

The above quote says 2-40 minutes (and an average of 13 minutes) for death to occur.

Is there a verifiable source or calculated reasoning behind these numbers? Any insight would greatly be appreciated
I think it is that 40 min is the reported experience of witness. Death happens quite quickly but tanks are allowed to run out "to be sure"'
 
Lookingforabus

Lookingforabus

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I think it is that 40 min is the reported experience of witness. Death happens quite quickly but tanks are allowed to run out "to be sure"'
Yes, I read that in one of the books suggesting this method. Not sure which one, but 40 minutes was the longest time it took for someone to die with inert gas asphyxiation during observed/assisted suicides. (I got the impression they may have been using a mask, rather than a bag, so there may have been some leakage that contributed to the longer time-to-death.). There was also a mention of someone who simply inflated the bag with inert gas, sealed it off, fell unconscious before he crossed the room and successfully died, so if you're lucky, you might get by with seconds worth of gas flow, not that I recommend counting on that.

20 minutes should be plenty, 30 if you want to give yourself a generous safety margin, and 40 if you're worried about having the longest recorded time-to-die. (For what it's worth, I'm a little worried... don't trust my luck these days. Better safe than waking up alive, feeling sorry for myself. :wink:)
 
H

how2toGetout

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Yes, I read that in one of the books suggesting this method. Not sure which one, but 40 minutes was the longest time it took for someone to die with inert gas asphyxiation during observed/assisted suicides. (I got the impression they may have been using a mask, rather than a bag, so there may have been some leakage that contributed to the longer time-to-death.).
Why does using a mask in Nitrogen method, takes a longer time-to-death?
And which book was it that mentioned about 40 minutes?
 
Lookingforabus

Lookingforabus

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I don't remember which book, but with a mask, it's hard to ensure an airtight seal under good conditions, and with your face muscles contracting or relaxing and possibly twitching about when you go unconscious, you inevitably end up with some degree of leakage.
 
Sirius

Sirius

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Why does using a mask in Nitrogen method, takes a longer time-to-death?
And which book was it that mentioned about 40 minutes?
They have experimented with masks for years since people object to "pulling a bag over the head". However, you can't get a reliable seal around the mask and as you lose consciousness and facial muscles relax, too much O2 seeps in and complicates things
 
Righttodie

Righttodie

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I think the time of 40 minutes was with a mask, which isn't recommended.

That's why in my opinion it took longer, whereas in all research, death occurs in minutes, not a prolonged 40 minutes if done with a bag.

Just my 2 cents on this. Either way, I will get a larger tank to be sure, I don't want to second guess or anything
 
Righttodie

Righttodie

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So i got 1500 l capacity cylinder with Nitrogen in it.
And a click Type regulator.

I am just wary of it and don't know if it's the right kind because it has a plastic attachment at the bottom where it is to be used to connect a hose. And it doesn't fit either.

Just wondering if plastic will be fine for use or should I remove that attachment and connect a hose directly to the outlet.


IMG20190908110216.jpg
IMG20190908110227.jpg
 
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Righttodie

Righttodie

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So i got 1500 l capacity cylinder with Nitrogen in it.
And a click Type regulator.

I am just wary of it and don't know if it's the right kind because it has a plastic attachment at the bottom where it is to be used to connect a hose. And it doesn't fit either.

Just wondering if plastic will be fine for use or should I remove that attachment and connect a hose directly to the outlet.


View attachment 15970View attachment 15969
Anyone ?
 
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LMFAO FOCKERS

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I have this same setup. That Xmas tree (green plastic) connects to a standard medical oxygen mask which comes with a universal hose fitting. I brought a non-rebreather mask but it seems very cheap. (Fortunately manufacturer provided full refund and I got to keep the product and I can experiment with it.) In order for the medical oxygen mask to work I'd imagine I'd imagine I'd have to tape the edges to my face and possibly tape the area that lets the exhaled C02 come out. However that could possibly cause panicked breathing since there would be C02 build up?

I'm considering taking the plastic hose connector off the mask and connecting it to another mask. I'm looking at Allegro 9901 or 9920. 9920 got some comments about being cheap on AMZN (yet "does the job" for a hazard worker). I'd consider trying it out on the basis of being one of the more cost effective options I've researched. Heck - it looks way more sturdy than the medical oxygen mask I bought.

If you take the Xmas tree off the screw connector is called a DISS. I've found a DISS connector hose with various connectors on the 2nd side (DISS and other names). I'm still trying to figure out if there is a DISS connector mask or one with another connector such that one of the hoses I saw would be a match.

I'm also wondering whether DISS is the standard connector for a regular scuba mask? Still researching this.


The attachments in the below photo look like DISS connectors but that's based on me eyeballing it. I have not confirmed that through research. Its hard to get detailed specs in the descriptions of these products. But it sure does look like it and I may take the chance to buy 2 of these just to find out. AMZN has a good return policy so it may be worth a shot if I'm wrong.
 

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Righttodie

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I have this same setup. That Xmas tree (green plastic) connects to a standard medical oxygen mask which comes with a universal hose fitting. I brought a non-rebreather mask but it seems very cheap. (Fortunately manufacturer provided full refund and I got to keep the product and I can experiment with it.) In order for the medical oxygen mask to work I'd imagine I'd imagine I'd have to tape the edges to my face and possibly tape the area that lets the exhaled C02 come out. However that could possibly cause panicked breathing since there would be C02 build up?

I'm considering taking the plastic hose connector off the mask and connecting it to another mask. I'm looking at Allegro 9901 or 9920. 9920 got some comments about being cheap on AMZN (yet "does the job" for a hazard worker). I'd consider trying it out on the basis of being one of the more cost effective options I've researched. Heck - it looks way more sturdy than the medical oxygen mask I bought.

If you take the Xmas tree off that connector the screw connector is called a DISS. I've found a DISS connector hose with various connectors on the 2nd side (DISS and other names). I'm still trying to figure out if there is a DISS connector mask or one with another connector such that one of the hoses I saw would be a match.

I'm also wondering whether DISS is the standard connector for a regular scuba mask? Still researching this.


The attachments in the below photo look like DISS connectors but that's based on me eyeballing it. I have not confirmed that through research. Its hard to get detailed specs in the descriptions of these products. But it sure does look like it and I may take the chance to buy 2 of these just to find out. AMZN has a good return policy so it may be worth a shot if I'm wrong.
Hey. Thanks for the reply.

Coming to the mask, the organisations that have tested with it don't recommend it, you can read in one of the books(don't remember which).

To confirm again. The hose I am looking for is one which connects to a DISS outlet regulator. Right ?
 
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LMFAO FOCKERS

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Hey. Thanks for the reply.

Coming to the mask, the organisations that have tested with it don't recommend it, you can read in one of the books(don't remember which).

To confirm again. The hose I am looking for is one which connects to a DISS outlet regulator. Right ?

YES that end is called a DISS.


I am comfortable with finding the "right" mask. There are a number of recorded suicides in india that have been done with a mask. I posted them in another thread. The recommendation on another SS sight I found is a Supplied Air respirator (SAR) not just a standard oxygen mask. I'm using my oxygen mask as a prototype. The Allegro are both SARs. SARs are cheaper than Scuba Masks and highly effective.


The US government changed the standards for oxygen/ inert gas tank connectors due to the large number of deaths that were occurring back in the day. Govy required manufacturers to make the fittings different sizes due to hazard workers connecting SARs to non-oxygen tanks by accident during the course of their hazard work.


If you use the below website it gives measurements of possible dual hoses that could connect to the DISS regulator. If you scroll down to the end you see the potential measurements for oxygen and air hose/mask fittings. I'd imagine that these are all standard sized connectors depending on the product that is to be connected. From there I would find the right SAR or Scuba mask that could fit with one of these sizes. Of course you dont have to buy from this manufacturer. I'm just using it as a reference guide to know what the standard possibilities are for hose connectors such that I can be more deliberate in my search for the correct connector measurements.

catalog.superiorprod(dot)com/viewitems/quick-connectors-3/chemetron-quick-connectors



-------------------------------
EDIT 1:
Adding a link to an older post I made on SARs and OSHA

A lot of the SS blogs I had saved were being either temporarily blocked or pulled down when I searched long time ago so I started taking pictures of methods on sites I saved.

It should work with a scuba mask or the "right" supplied air mask. Many people have died accidentally from inert gas so the US govt made an order to change the size of the threading to prevent accidentally connecting inert gas to a supplied air mask. This is easy to circumvent with the hose that has soft connectors. The plastic would stretch to connect to any threading. And duct tape could be used to reinforce that connection.

The ones at MD brewing are pricey so I'd imagine you could find a cheaper hose at amazon.

This is the only link I have that is working. See the last comment where I copied the formula. Beware that some of the purchase links dont work. The anti-choice "internet police" also recently started redirecting certain product links from SS websites to the suicide hotline page. You will have to copy the link and enter it into your browser to circumvent that. The internet police must be idiots to think that will deter someone.


See links below:

see bottom of page

techie

airport

SAR accidents

EDIT: An adapter could easily be found to connect a gas cylinder to a SAR / scuba hose. See attached list of standard cylinder connectors for each country.

-----------------------------------------------
EDIT 2:


a standard plastic hose for an oxygen mask can connect this SAR to Xmas tree regulator.


dreamsofdestruction:
I know you chose scuba mask option and bought parts, etc...So I am not trying to change your mind or argue against scuba.
But I been reading about respirator option. It is very appealing. Especially since this is how industrial N2 accidental death happens.
Much simpler than scuba option.
I would like hear from you any negatives? draw backs? about this option. Don't worry you won' hurt my feelings, LOL, Truth rocks.
View attachment 12239

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EDIT 3:


@fister (RIP) likely used a mask. In his setup he included standard oxygen tubes as part of his setup. He was supposed to comeback and give us the details of this part but he never did. Aparently he was successful.


 
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Righttodie

Righttodie

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YES that end is called a DISS.


I am comfortable with finding the "right" mask. There are a number of recorded suicides in india that have been done with a mask. I posted them in another thread. The recommendation on another SS sight I found is a Supplied Air respirator (SAR) not just a standard oxygen mask. I'm using my oxygen mask as a prototype. The Allegro are both SARs. SARs are cheaper than Scuba Masks and highly effective.


The US government changed the standards for oxygen/ inert gas tank connectors due to the large number of deaths that were occurring back in the day. Govy required manufacturers to make the fittings different sizes due to hazard workers connecting SARs to non-oxygen tanks by accident during the course of their hazard work.


If you use the below website it gives measurements of possible dual hoses that could connect to the DISS regulator. If you scroll down to the end you see the potential measurements for oxygen and air hose/mask fittings. I'd imagine that these are all standard sized connectors depending on the product that is to be connected. From there I would find the right SAR or Scuba mask that could fit with one of these sizes. Of course you dont have to buy from this manufacturer. I'm just using it as a reference guide to know what the standard possibilities are for hose connectors such that I can be more deliberate in my search for the correct connector measurements.

catalog.superiorprod(dot)com/viewitems/quick-connectors-3/chemetron-quick-connectors



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EDIT 1:
Adding a link to an older post I made on SARs and OSHA




-----------------------------------------------
EDIT 2:


a standard plastic hose for an oxygen mask can connect this SAR to Xmas tree regulator.





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EDIT 3:


@fister (RIP) likely used a mask. In his setup he included standard oxygen tubes as part of his setup. He was supposed to comeback and give us the details of this part but he never did. Aparently he was successful.


Thanks for the information. I will be going with a plastic bag, just to not be worried of anything failing.


I emailed a manufacturer asking them information on what hose to buy. I attached the image of my regulator's outlet. This is their response

"
Thank you for your feedback.
Yes, those hoses should fit your regulator's 1st stage if there is a standard 3/8 thread.
You can measure the thread with a thread micrometer."

So it seems it's a 3/8 thread that I have.

@TiredHorse
I have another issue.
I have turned the cylinder's supply off, yet my regulator seems to show a pressure reading after a couple of hours.
And when I turn on the regulator, nitrogen flows and the reading goes to nil fast.

Should i be worried about a leak or the cylinder not being screwed off properly ?
 
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H

how2toGetout

.
Aug 20, 2019
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I have another issue.
I have turned the cylinder's supply off, yet my regulator seems to show a pressure reading after a couple of hours.
I'm assuming the pressure reading you've mentioned is the reading on the regulator's inlet pressure, right?

The following youtube videos may be helpful in understanding why the regulator's inlet pressure was still having a pressure reading after cylinder's was turned off:

My guess is that the regulator's inlet pressure was already built up after the outlet of regulator was closed. So turning off the cylinder supply would just block the pathway from cylinder to the regulator. But a pressure is still built up from the time when the cylinder supply knob was in a turned-on position.

According to the first video above where it talks about leak test (in particular, a pressure test, which begins around the minute 2:12 of the video), the sign of a pressure remaining constant (steady) means there's no leaks.


And when I turn on the regulator, nitrogen flows and the reading goes to nil fast.

Should i be worried about a leak or the cylinder not being screwed off properly ?
As for the part where your inlet pressure going to a "nil" (zero) pressure reading soon after nitrogen flows out the outlet part of the regulator, the built-up pressure inside the regulator would decrease to zero as the nitrogen pressure built up inside the regulator flushes out through the outlet of the regulator.

The "oxygen" regulator you have above shows only the "inlet" pressure and doesn't show the "outlet" pressure and has the flowmeter feature which a nitrogen regulator would not have. Nitrogen regulators usually don't come with a nitrogen flowmeter feature built into them. Nitrogen flowmeter is a separate "add-on" thing that controls the flow through the "outlet" part of the regulator.

After comparing analogies between nitrogen regulator+flowmeter and O2 regulator, you will realize O2 regulator's flowmeter knob is analogous to nitrogen flowmeter in terms of their function.

So in order to know that there's no leak in the cylinder valve, the next time you install the O2 regulator, the pressure reading (inlet pressure reading) needs to be the same as the previous reading when you previously had O2 regulator installed. The bubble test can also be done to detect any "real-time" leaking to see if there's any leak happening as of that moment you apply the bubbletest-soap.

Should i be worried about a leak or the cylinder not being screwed off properly ?
If the cylinder knob is not screwed off (turned off) properly fully to its closed position, then my guess is that the pressure reading on O2 regulator would keep slowly going up until it reaches a certain point in pressure reading (to achieve equilibrium with the cylinder's pressure), because cylinder's supply is connected to the inside of the O2 regulator.

The only way to be sure that the cylinder knob is fully closed and that there's no nitrogen leaking from the valve, my guess is that you use a bubble-test for any "real-time" leaks?
But i don't know if that would harm the valve (where the female thread, etc. are) in some way.



Now i have a question too: How do you know if nitrogen is not leaking from cylinder valve (especially the area inside the female thread part) when a regulator is not installed on the cylinder valve?
Is the only way to know by checking the pressure reading (inlet pressure) each time you install a regulator onto the cylinder valve?
 
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frees

frees

swoosh
Sep 6, 2019
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Now i have a question too: How do you know if nitrogen is not leaking from cylinder valve (especially the area inside the female thread part) when a regulator is not installed on the cylinder valve?
Is the only way to know by checking the pressure reading (inlet pressure) each time you install a regulator onto the cylinder valve?
You can do a soap test -> spray with soap water and look for bubble formation. But i would not recommend because then you have some residue in the gas path. I would stop worrying. Tank valves in good condition don't leak and bottles can be refilled.
 
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Righttodie

Righttodie

Maybe in another life
Apr 10, 2019
161
350
I'm assuming the pressure reading you've mentioned is the reading on the regulator's inlet pressure, right?

The following youtube videos may be helpful in understanding why the regulator's inlet pressure was still having a pressure reading after cylinder's was turned off:

My guess is that the regulator's inlet pressure was already built up after the outlet of regulator was closed. So turning off the cylinder supply would just block the pathway from cylinder to the regulator. But a pressure is still built up from the time when the cylinder supply knob was in a turned-on position.

According to the first video above where it talks about leak test (in particular, a pressure test, which begins around the minute 2:12 of the video), the sign of a pressure remaining constant (steady) means there's no leaks.



As for the part where your inlet pressure going to a "nil" (zero) pressure reading soon after nitrogen flows out the outlet part of the regulator, the built-up pressure inside the regulator would decrease to zero as the nitrogen pressure built up inside the regulator flushes out through the outlet of the regulator.

The "oxygen" regulator you have above shows only the "inlet" pressure and doesn't show the "outlet" pressure and has the flowmeter feature which a nitrogen regulator would not have. Nitrogen regulators usually don't come with a nitrogen flowmeter feature built into them. Nitrogen flowmeter is a separate "add-on" thing that controls the flow through the "outlet" part of the regulator.

After comparing analogies between nitrogen regulator+flowmeter and O2 regulator, you will realize O2 regulator's flowmeter knob is analogous to nitrogen flowmeter in terms of their function.

So in order to know that there's no leak in the cylinder valve, the next time you install the O2 regulator, the pressure reading (inlet pressure reading) needs to be the same as the previous reading when you previously had O2 regulator installed. The bubble test can also be done to detect any "real-time" leaking to see if there's any leak happening as of that moment you apply the bubbletest-soap.


If the cylinder knob is not screwed off (turned off) properly fully to its closed position, then my guess is that the pressure reading on O2 regulator would keep slowly going up until it reaches a certain point in pressure reading (to achieve equilibrium with the cylinder's pressure), because cylinder's supply is connected to the inside of the O2 regulator.

The only way to be sure that the cylinder knob is fully closed and that there's no nitrogen leaking from the valve, my guess is that you use a bubble-test for any "real-time" leaks?
But i don't know if that would harm the valve (where the female thread, etc. are) in some way.



Now i have a question too: How do you know if nitrogen is not leaking from cylinder valve (especially the area inside the female thread part) when a regulator is not installed on the cylinder valve?
Is the only way to know by checking the pressure reading (inlet pressure) each time you install a regulator onto the cylinder valve?
I did the pressure and bubble test. Nothing. It's not showing any leak.

The thing is that i understand the built in pressure in the Regulator after i open the cylinder valve and then close it. So, the Regulator shows pressure until you release it.

But it began to show pressure even after I released the built up pressure in the regulator after I had turned the cylinder on.

My guess would be that I didn't screw the cylinder too tightly (or something else might be at play, considering the considerable amount of force it took to screw the Cylinder tightly)

At this moment I am just too exhausted with life and just want everything to go simply, I am going to let this be for now and stop thinking about it.

I really want to thank you for taking the time out to explain everything, gives me peace when you get answers. It means a lot.

Regarding your question.
I won't know then. If I don't have a regulator in place.
 
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