[Discussion] Do doctors know better methods?

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Have you had moments where a professional should have known better; made you feel stupid, etc...


  • Total voters
    45
McShuckle

McShuckle

Member
Apr 12, 2018
10
26
A few years ago, I was talking to this therapist/student psychiatrist or something and when I said killing yourself was difficult he smiled, confirmed it with me, and then laughed a bit.

I'm still kind of freaked out, I don't know what he thought, perhaps he thought I was just stupid? I don't know, this memory resurfaces from time to time. Do any of you have any therapist/psychiatrist moments like this?
 
Mad

Mad

Actually just sad
Mar 21, 2018
155
473
A few years ago, I was talking to this therapist/student psychiatrist or something and when I said killing yourself was difficult he smiled, confirmed it with me, and then laughed a bit.

I'm still kind of freaked out, I don't know what he thought, perhaps he thought I was just stupid? I don't know, this memory resurfaces from time to time. Do any of you have any therapist/psychiatrist moments like this?
They might have a first-hand experience. Many psychiatrists get into psychiatry because they had to deal with its problems first-hand.
 
M

MAIO

Enlightened
Apr 8, 2018
802
2,402
A few years ago, I was talking to this therapist/student psychiatrist or something and when I said killing yourself was difficult he smiled, confirmed it with me, and then laughed a bit.

I'm still kind of freaked out, I don't know what he thought, perhaps he thought I was just stupid? I don't know, this memory resurfaces from time to time. Do any of you have any therapist/psychiatrist moments like this?
I have a super religious/crazy ex who is going to be a therapist in a year. (She believes guys should be able to read her thoughts the schizo version, bible is literally true so on and has schizophrenia) Point being therapist are just people, often they became therapist to try to understand their psychology better. Your doctor can probably either relate or thinks you are in denial, anyone can easily kill themselves. Hopefully it's him relating. After all they use to always say psychiatrist have the highest suicide rates.
 
Sonnenblume

Sonnenblume

Sunflower Panda
Apr 6, 2018
588
1,759
I was just reminded, a shrink said to me once "You're already dead, aren't you?" I just nodded. He meant it as an insult, a challenge. But I didn't take ti as such. It was just a fact to me. *shrug*
 
L

LetRavensGather

New Member
Apr 13, 2018
4
10
Doctors do know better methods. They still face difficulty obtaining them, though. There are built-in checks to cut down on incidents. Mostly though, they also know what doesn’t work, and go straight by those options. No, I’m not a doc.
 
H

Hikingcat

Member
Mar 19, 2018
17
54
Physicians do have some of the highest suicide rates, but some people of theorized it's because that they have become extremely familiar with taking apart the body and death, so it makes it easier for them to actually go through with it, because cutting up the body in surgery and death have both been normalized for them.

I feel like doctors would still have issues getting barbiturates, but they could probably get their hands on things that are in the hospital if they work there or things that are prescribable like opioids. If they took them for the hospital or faked a patient for a prescription, it's not like they'd get punished later if there were dead.
 
sadak_the_wanderer

sadak_the_wanderer

An appropriate painting
Mar 19, 2018
243
872
Why not look for something a bit more definitive?

"Doctors who kill themselves: a study of the methods used for suicide" (by K. Hawton, A. Clements, S. Simkin, A. Malmberg; QJM: An International Journal of Medicine, Volume 93, Issue 6, 1 June 2000, Pages 351–357)

It's a touch out to date, by nearly two decades. You'll note that the barbituates are a little harder to come by, having been replaced largely by benzodiazapenes.
 
H

Hikingcat

Member
Mar 19, 2018
17
54
I wasn't looking to do the research myself, just commenting on something I'd read in Joiner's Why People Die By Suicide. I also remember reading that something like 30% of chemists that kill themselves do so with cyanide (I think that was in Final Exit?). That leads me to believe that people use what they know, but that's not something that could really have an RTC done....
 
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sadak_the_wanderer

sadak_the_wanderer

An appropriate painting
Mar 19, 2018
243
872
Ah, Hikingcat, I was responding to the general topic, because it sounds like the querent is wondering if M.D.s have a secret method they're using.

One of the poisoning textbooks I'm going through mentioned a very particular barbituate being favorited by medical doctors, but I'd have to dig through to find the citation and be more sure of it. It wasn't our current favorite, if I recall.

I do agree that, at least in that article, the people in question go with what they know:
"The role of availability in determining methods used for suicide is strikingly illustrated by the fact that half of the anaesthetists who committed suicide used anaesthetic agents in these acts. This may also explain the relatively frequent use of barbiturates and especially opiates for suicide by general practitioners. On the other hand it is of interest that no psychiatrists who died took a psychotropic agent in overdose. This might reflect the fact that psychiatrists rarely have direct contact with the drugs they prescribe, but is perhaps more likely to be due to the psychiatrists being aware that many psychotropic agents are less dangerous in overdose than other drugs."
Another, similar study suggests that veterinarians go for self-poisoning, typically injectable barbituates.

Familiarity and availability definitely factor into it. Just look at the coal gas situation in England. Overall, I think civilization has become more and more concerned with safety, in terms of making sure people don't "accidentally" harm themselves, and this has had the indirect effect of making a self-selected death that much harder.
 
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L

LetRavensGather

New Member
Apr 13, 2018
4
10
Physicians do have some of the highest suicide rates, but some people of theorized it's because that they have become extremely familiar with taking apart the body and death, so it makes it easier for them to actually go through with it, because cutting up the body in surgery and death have both been normalized for them.

I feel like doctors would still have issues getting barbiturates, but they could probably get their hands on things that are in the hospital if they work there or things that are prescribable like opioids. If they took them for the hospital or faked a patient for a prescription, it's not like they'd get punished later if there were dead.
Meds in current hospitals - especially for controlled substances —- are realeased by computerized compartment method. You must code in every drug you remove and do the same when it’s given to the patient, Conflicts in inventory alerts pharmacists. Contolled meds (benzos, opioids) must be signed out and witnessed with a coworker. What Drs do know is that most pills overdoses are unsuccessful. But they know a few combinations of meds that will succeed when combined. Those and anesthesia meds/ gasses are the only ways I actually know cases of phycisian suicides personally, but I think they’ve blocked those as well.

When it comes down to it, they’re just people too. With the same choices to make and honed self-preservation skills to overcome.

Wish it were different. For all of us.
 
Lion

Lion

Zzz
Apr 18, 2018
65
97
On the other hand it is of interest that no psychiatrists who died took a psychotropic agent in overdose. This might reflect the fact that psychiatrists rarely have direct contact with the drugs they prescribe but is perhaps more likely to be due to the psychiatrists being aware that many psychotropic agents are less dangerous in overdose than other drugs
wow, that is interesting...
 
sadak_the_wanderer

sadak_the_wanderer

An appropriate painting
Mar 19, 2018
243
872
I know a couple of nurses who seem to have pretty free access. I'll have to see about succinylcholine ("sux"), a paralytic. One R.N. I knew managed to steal a quarter-million dollars worth of Valium, sort of a staggering amount.
 
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sadak_the_wanderer

sadak_the_wanderer

An appropriate painting
Mar 19, 2018
243
872
As a followup: from Deadly Doses: A Writer's Guide to Poisons ...

Ultrashort-acting thiobarbital, used also as an intravenous anesthetic, has the quickest response on the brain. According to Prediction of Suicide by Drs. Beck, Resnick, and Lettierri, this last drug is the most widely used of all drugs for suicide among doctors.​

I will dig up the book and see what that has to say.
 
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M

Maya

Member
Apr 24, 2018
29
63
Ive been fortunate enough to have a psychologist who listens and lets me have power over myself. She cant make me do anything- and really she just listens really well. But i have heard of several other psychologists being manipulative or agressive and doing damage.