DeBreather purchase, too good to be true?

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shipwreck

shipwreck

Veteran
May 7, 2020
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I attempted with the ReBreather. There are flaws in the design, and it was not peaceful. I'm glad to answer any questions here on the thread, no PMs.

I tried all three masks, from largest to smallest.

Each time, I breathed deeply, and the lung in the bag expanded and contracted.

My hands started to tingle a bit.

Then I felt my face shift at the chin, and the lung did not contract or expand as much. So the seal was compromised. I considered getting some denture gel.

With the last mask, the smallest, I draped one forearm over the part where the tubes join and connect to the mask. This maintained the seal. However, if I had gone into convulsions, the seal would have been broken.

At this point, I'd had it on for about 7-8 minutes.

Once the seal was really held and I was continuing to breathe deeply, it was indeed like being in a bag. It was starting to get intense, and my lungs were expanding to try to draw in more oxygen. One leg kept twitching like an anxiety response. I tried to follow through, but I only lasted about a minute.

Overall, each attempt was around 10 minutes, the last one was when I got the seal to hold. The soda lime is still white.
Sounds like a distressing experience, especially the last part when the seal held. I hope you're not too shaken by it, and that you'll take some time to relax and recover. You have plenty of well wishers here.

Difficulty maintaining a seal is definitely a design flaw. But for the brief time you were able to maintain the seal and the device performed as intended, it sounds like you were fighting for breath? That suggests that the method is fundamentally flawed. Would you agree? And would you attempt it again if the design were improved?
 
mediocre

mediocre

stuck in an alternative universe
Nov 9, 2019
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So it's been over a week since I opened the bag and I couldn't figure out how to iron it properly to reseal it. So far it doesn't appear the white granules have turned color? I'm not sure what this means. I thought they would turn color and that meant they had to be replaced.
 

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Living sucks

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Quoted:


Hi. Well I wasn’t expecting that. Don’t feel obligated to answer anything personal vs technical.

Did you attempt before or after seeing @enjolras message?
i know this was a real attempt bcos I know your fears related to a failed attempt with this method.

- After.
- I decided to just go for it. I wanted the possibility of a peaceful death, even a fun one from getting a hypoxic high.

how many attempts did you make?

- One with each mask. Every time, the seal broke within around two minutes. I didn't watch the clock because the inflated mask is right under the eyes, easier to keep them closed, and also I wanted to just relax and concentrate on the breathing and hopefully enjoy getting high.

how long did you play with the mask before feeling it was secure enough?

- It was very easy to connect, no time at all. I didn't even adjust the head strap, I have a smallish head and it's a thick elastic, so I just slipped it over my head because the Velcro is under the chin padding and I didn't want to pull it apart if I didn't have to. It was very snug. I pulled the straps tight from the mask to Velcro onto the head band and there was no slipping. The mask is a little uncomfortable over the bridge of the nose. Also, folks who are sensitive to chemical smells might want to let everything air out for a bit.

was the device comfortable or cumbersome to strap to your chest?

- Comfortable enough. The strap goes around the lower ribs and is adjustable. I think it's a little loose once adjusted and was concerned it might slip and get looser if there were convulsions, and that a better quality strap would hold more snugly. The device weighs 7 lbs and is boxy, it would be nice if it were thickly and softly padded, and even nicer if it curved down from the sternum instead of just flat.

how did the chin strap (head band) feel?

- Very snug. Not super comfortable but not uncomfortable. It felt secure. If I were to attempt again, I might play with trying to get it to hold down the bottom of the mask. But I won't be attempting again because of the feeling of increasing suffocation.

Absolutely no dizziness or lightheaded feeling?

- When I first started, slightly light headed, tingling hands. Mild tachycardia after that for maybe 30 seconds. Then soon after, the seal would break because my facial muscles shifted.

sounds impossible to proceed with this method as forcing yourself to stay connected (sealed) is not pleasant in anyway.

- I couldn't do it. I kept hoping that it would pass and I'd start to have a hypoxic response, but I didn't, the discomfort kept slowly but regularly increasing. My heart rate increased, it helped to do deep breathing, but...it wasn't exactly like suffocation, more like increasing displacement and not being able to breathe properly. Not the same as an alarm response from having a plastic bag over my head, but the alarm was increasing.

also, do you feel that any of the summarized improvements will make a difference? It seems that maybe the entire design is flawed as nextbusleavings design seems (to me) to be quite different and his tests seemed to produce different feelings and results within minutes.

- Definitely something needs to change, I don't know if it's in the tubes or what. Whatever the flaw, the device definitely did not create a hypoxic response. I didn't feel woozy, have problems thinking, any of that. The tingling was mild and brief, the lightheadedness barely there and brief, and the tachycardia relatively mild and passed in less than 30 seconds.


Sorry if the proper term is anoxic.

Edit: I felt totally fine once I took a few breaths, no symptoms whatsoever.
Knowing of the failures, why did you attempt with it? Was it because the failures appeared to have no devastating outcomes and able to report back to exit? Ie no brain damage?

Did you take any sedatives prior?

did you adjust the masks with the air syringes ?

even if you maintained seal with no issue, the prospect of being able to keep breathing normally and peacefully until unconscious sounds like it was way too unbearable. I want to say that maybe Lyme sulfur isn’t doing the job it’s supposed to or the tubes and closed circuit isn’t proper?
downtogo didn’t even report any affects at all.. and taped the mask.
very disheartening.

are you going to request a replacement device?

thanks for answering. I’m sorry you went thru that but I think you anticipated it.
 
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GoodPersonEffed

GoodPersonEffed

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Sounds like a distressing experience, especially the last part when the seal held. I hope you're not too shaken by it, and that you'll take some time to relax and recover. You have plenty of well wishers here.

Difficulty maintaining a seal is definitely a design flaw. But for the brief time you were able to maintain the seal and the device performed as intended, it sounds like you were fighting for breath? That suggests that the method is fundamentally flawed. Would you agree? And would you attempt it again if the design were improved?
Thank you! It was not distressing, I stayed calm and alert the whole time. At the end, when it was getting distressing because of physical SI alarms, and it became clear that it was on a trajectory that wasn't going to shift, I aborted the attempt.

I would attempt again if the design were improved.

The point of the method is that, as oxygen is replaced with nitrogen, it should be peaceful, not a struggle. A hypoxic response should not lead to freaking out or feeling like struggling. There's shouldn't be awareness that something is "wrong," and at best, unless one is having bad hallucinations, it should be kind of fun. It was not fun, it was peaceful up until the breathing issues started, and then it sucked. I attempted because I wanted the potential that it offered for a peaceful exit, and it did not deliver.

I will say, when I first had the mask on and was breathing with the lung inflating and deflating, I could tell that I was breathing in an artificial environment, it was not fresh air, but I was not distressed. The mask is a little uncomfortable, especially across the bridge of the nose, but I was not distressed. I get distressed wearing medical masks, but this mask is roomy enough that I don't feel the stress of the breathing environment being right up on me, which gives me a claustrophobic response.
 
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Living sucks

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Mar 27, 2020
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I am wondering now if downtogo removed the inner bag which is basically the lung?
Hence that would render absolutely zero effect on someone attempting to use it.
 
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GoodPersonEffed

GoodPersonEffed

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1. Knowing of the failures, why did you attempt with it? Was it because the failures appeared to have no devastating outcomes and able to report back to exit? Ie no brain damage?

2. Did you take any sedatives prior?

3. did you adjust the masks with the air syringes ?

4. even if you maintained seal with no issue, the prospect of being able to keep breathing normally and peacefully until unconscious sounds like it was way too unbearable. I want to say that maybe Lyme sulfur isn’t doing the job it’s supposed to or the tubes and closed circuit isn’t proper?
downtogo didn’t even report any affects at all.. and taped the mask.
very disheartening.

5. are you going to request a replacement device?

6. thanks for answering. I’m sorry you went thru that but I think you anticipated it.
1. Because of the failures and how they were described, I wasn't afraid, I knew what I hoped for vs. the likely outcome. I didn't consciously think about what I had feared before, but I'm sure that played a role. I knew I was having hyped-up fears and had been trying to work through them, but yeah, I think the reports gave me the confidence to say, "Fuck it. I'll try." Along with the mental preparation I've been doing anyway. I'm not ready for a stressful death, but I'm ready for a peaceful one.

2. No. I thought about it when I had the first mask on and had some tachycardia, but I was able to stay present, breathe deeply, and go back to being grounded. After that, I was grounded throughout.

3. I had already fully inflated them. They need to be pushed down to stay down. Every single time, I experienced the same shift in my muscles on either side of my chin.

4. There was no prospect of breathing normally and peacefully once the displacement started. It was not a hypoxic response, and it was unbearable.

5. No comment. :)

6. I did anticipate it, and it wasn't even remotely traumatic, so I don't feel like I went through anything. :) I'm happy to answer questions, otherwise I wouldn't have posted, I knew there would be, no matter how well I described it, and I ask questions of others, too. And all of the questions here have been good! Honestly, I get kind of frustrated when folks post about a method failing but won't answer questions. I get that it's personal, and I get that they may just need some support, not grilling, so my frustration is 100% on me. But for my own personal experience, I don't need the support, and I'm glad to be able to say what went wrong and describe it. I didn't post a goodbye thread, I've already gotten tons of support for preparing, and the rest is just personal, but if I felt like I needed the support of a goodbye thread, I'd do that, too! If I have another method fail, I'll likely post about it. It helps us all when we know what fails.
 
L

Living sucks

no one can understand
Mar 27, 2020
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So it's been over a week since I opened the bag and I couldn't figure out how to iron it properly to reseal it. So far it doesn't appear the white granules have turned color? I'm not sure what this means. I thought they would turn color and that meant they had to be replaced.
I’m not sure it matters since it’s now proven that it’s not peaceful and actually distressing.
would you still try after reading the anecdotes?
I would be requesting a replacement.
 
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GoodPersonEffed

GoodPersonEffed

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Btw, if the ReBreather actually caused hypoxia, I would have gotten duct tape for the mask.
 
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Living sucks

no one can understand
Mar 27, 2020
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I’m really pissed off that this doesn’t work as it’s supposed to and I don’t even own one. I tried buying one before all this when it wasn’t available. And I don’t have the ability to make one. (Just Not possible in my circumstance unfortunately)
 
mediocre

mediocre

stuck in an alternative universe
Nov 9, 2019
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I’m not sure it matters since it’s now proven that it’s not peaceful and actually distressing.
would you still try after reading the anecdotes?
I would be requesting a replacement.
Btw, if the ReBreather actually caused hypoxia, I would have gotten duct tape for the mask.
This is disappointing where did you learn that it’s not peaceful and causes distress? so it’s basically a fake product since the granules are not changing color? I feel quite silly for believe it would work.
 
GoodPersonEffed

GoodPersonEffed

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For @Soul and others who were wondering about CO2 retention, I just saw this explanation of soda lime from Biodex. I can't link it because it's a PDF, but it says:

Soda-Lime is a mixture of chemicals, used in granular form in closed breathing environments, such as general anesthesia, submarines, rebreathers, recompression chambers, respiratory therapy departments and xenon delivery systems, to remove carbon dioxide from breathing gases to prevent CO2 retention....

In theory, then, a debreather should be effective if one has this condition.



This is disappointing where did you learn that it’s not peaceful and causes distress? so it’s basically a fake product since the granules are not changing color? I feel quite silly for believe it would work.
I attempted today. Here's the post, and I answered questions in posts that follow.

The granules should not change color quickly, though. According to Richard, there's enough for at least a couple of people to use the ReBreather.

I wouldn't feel silly. For as long as it's been in development, one would think it would work. But I did not experience hypoxia, I experienced breathing distress, so it's not working correctly.

Really, one would think they could have tested the product safely with an oximeter and someone to remove the mask when hypoxia started kicking in.

I attempted with the ReBreather. There are flaws in the design, and it was not peaceful. I'm glad to answer any questions here on the thread, no PMs.

I tried all three masks, from largest to smallest.

Each time, I breathed deeply, and the lung in the bag expanded and contracted.

My hands started to tingle a bit.

Then I felt my face shift at the chin, and the lung did not contract or expand as much. So the seal was compromised. I considered getting some denture gel.

With the last mask, the smallest, I draped one forearm over the part where the tubes join and connect to the mask. This maintained the seal. However, if I had gone into convulsions, the seal would have been broken.

At this point, I'd had it on for about 7-8 minutes.

Once the seal was really held and I was continuing to breathe deeply, it was indeed like being in a bag. It was starting to get intense, and my lungs were expanding to try to draw in more oxygen. One leg kept twitching like an anxiety response. I tried to follow through, but I only lasted about a minute.

Overall, each attempt was around 10 minutes, the last one was when I got the seal to hold. The soda lime is still white.
 
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NextBusLeaving

Specialist
Jun 24, 2019
336
549
I know they are saying the soda lime expires BUT in a sealed container how is it going to absorb any CO2 which isnt really present in the air anyway?
 
GoodPersonEffed

GoodPersonEffed

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@mediocre, did you see my response above in post 1061? When I replied to you, it got added to that comment, which you had already liked.
 
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mediocre

mediocre

stuck in an alternative universe
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@mediocre, did you see my response above in post 1061? When I replied to you, it got added to that comment, which you had already liked.
Yes I thank you I didn’t see the link to the post after you attempted? Maybe it’s earlier in the thread I’ll take a look.
 
GoodPersonEffed

GoodPersonEffed

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Yes I thank you I didn’t see the link to the post after you attempted? Maybe it’s earlier in the thread I’ll take a look.
It's the quote at the end. Click on the arrow and it will go to the post, and then you can see the rest of the discussion that follows in the posts after.
 
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Soul

Soul

gate gate paragate parasamgate bodhi svaha
Apr 12, 2019
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In theory, then, a debreather should be effective if one has this condition.
Thank you, @GoodPersonEffed. The information @enjolras quoted yesterday from Exit listed lung conditions like respiratory acidosis (which accompanies hypercapnia) as one of the possible reasons for the rebreather failures that have been reported. So now I'm back to being thoroughly confused, but that's a feeling I've learned to enjoy for its educational potential, so thank you!
 
angie

angie

need to exit
May 25, 2018
453
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I notice the capture of SS info from Exit, without credit, so not up to feel apologetic anymore, especially since the audience is too often taken as guinea pigs with inadequate material then revisions

View attachment 36749

Those who got a device still sealed might consider to request for an exchange between old and new units
If the shipment hasn’t arrived yet (i.e. stuck at customs), I suggest to reject the delivery on arrival with the purpose to have the package returned to China covered without extra shipping fees (which would be quite expensive otherwise on own initiative)
...to arrange with Richard beforehand
:hug:
 
GoodPersonEffed

GoodPersonEffed

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Jan 11, 2020
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Yeah well *I* wasn't prepared yet, so please be gentle with yourself for a little while, ok? I'm glad you weren't damaged but it was still one of those high-stress experiences, and you deserve some salubrious care.

Meanwhile, it turns out I do have a question, if you can stand it. Are you interested in getting this poorly designed item replaced with the Upcoming Improved Version? Or have you had it with this method?
I didn't get notified of your comment, just saw it.

Aw, hon, I think it was a high stress experience for you to read about. I was mentally prepared and in control the whole time, but you weren't, and I get that. I liken it to when I watch viedos of people do cliff jumps and paraglide. My heart races, and I think the whole time about how awful it would be for me, and have to recover after watching, while they're all pumped and even more confident after the experience! :pfff: I'm not pumped up, but I was prepared and confident before, during, and after. Mentally prepared, researched, watched instructional videos, etc. However, if you need it, I hope you'll practice some of that salubrious self-care for yourself. SS is a tough environment, I think it requires a lot of self-care if one is engaging with tough subjects and also is the kind of person who cares and/or has empathetic responses to others' experiences. It's no wonder people freak out over less peaceful methods, it's like it's happening to them!

As far as a replacement, it's not really on my radar. Too many other things require my attention and consideration. I tried the current version, I accepted the outcome before it even happened, and I've moved on. I don't intend to be, but if I'm still alive when the revised version comes out, I'll perhaps reconsider then. For now, it' moot.
 
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SweetSpot086

Veteran
Aug 25, 2019
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Has anyone been sucessful with this? Do they really work?
 
V

Valsalva

Member
Feb 25, 2020
90
37
Yep. Spent 2 years, before I knew about suicide sites, learning all I could about nitrogen and the exit bag, found out where to get everything and how to make the purchases, only to discover that I could not use the method. Began studying the Sarco, and realized that although liquid nitrogen can be used to produce nitrogen gas, it is extremely cold, difficult to contain, and very heavy. So I googled CO2 absorbers and voila the debreather was born, and an explanation to Sarco was found. There are a number of examples showing how to design the instrument, (debreather) on altitude training sites...but I am still left with that crucial question...will it work for me?
Why cant you use the nitrogen method?
 
Soul

Soul

gate gate paragate parasamgate bodhi svaha
Apr 12, 2019
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@GoodPersonEffed, I was just reading in another thread that you have asthma, which entails not exhaling as much co2 as one is supposed to. Could that have been related to the debreather's failure to cooperate with you?
 
GoodPersonEffed

GoodPersonEffed

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Jan 11, 2020
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@GoodPersonEffed, I was just reading in another thread that you have asthma, which entails not exhaling as much co2 as one is supposed to. Could that have been related to the debreather's failure to cooperate with you?
I don't know. As I wrote in a post here to you yesterday, soda lime is supposed to specifically prevent CO2 retention in anesthesia, legit rebreathers, SCUBA diving, etc.

Edit: In thinking about it, the distress felt nothing like asthma. My lungs were actually expanding more, not being limited and tight feeling.
 
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