DeBreather purchase, too good to be true?

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L

Living sucks

no one can understand
Mar 27, 2020
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Customs might be a buroacratic problem. My Rebreather is stuck at customs (Spain). They want from me: 1/ National Ideintification validated by the tax agency (this can delay things if your national identification is still not validated by them because you renewed it), 2/ Invoice with some data from buyer and seller (I'm afraid they will be rejecting mine), 3/ Charge in your bank account (this is not a problem), 4/ Some declaration (I don't know if this is a problem, they ask if you're buying a sanitary product).

If at customs they open my unit, they'll runi it, I don't know how to substitue the soda lime granules.
This should be pretty easy bcuz it’s marketed as a Rebreather which is a life saving device used for breathing, that you are purchasing this device bcuz of the virus and would allow you breath in a crisis situation.
Why would they have a problem with that?
 
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Notabadguy

Notabadguy

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Feb 7, 2020
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This should be pretty easy bcuz it’s marketed as a Rebreather which is a life saving device used for breathing, that you are purchasing this device bcuz of the virus and would allow you breath in a crisis situation.
Why would they have a problem with that?
I don't know, but if they open it, they'll ruin the product. At the beginning I did a declaration that it was a mask, but later in the day I changed it saying it was a Rebreather with a mask. So, maybe I did it worse, in the sense of getting more attention and, therefore, the package open.
 
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GoodPersonEffed

GoodPersonEffed

Pensively Prolific
Jan 11, 2020
3,354
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I don't know, but if they open it, they'll ruin the product. At the beginning I did a declaration that it was a mask, but later in the day I changed it saying it was a Rebreather with a mask. So, maybe I did it worse, in the sense of getting more attention and, therefore, the package open.
If it can't pass through customs, and if it came through a shipping agent designated by R2D/Respiro and not re-shipped, then the seller should take responsibility and refund you.

I don't claim to know Spain's customs procedures, but it sounds a lot like Mexico. When in the process did you have to make a declaration of the contents? That should have already been taken care of by the shipper.
 
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Notabadguy

Notabadguy

Arcanist
Feb 7, 2020
526
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If it can't pass through customs, and if it came through a shipping agent designated by R2D/Respiro and not re-shipped, then the seller should take responsibility and refund you.

I don't claim to know Spain's customs procedures, but it sounds a lot like Mexico. When in the process did you have to make a declaration of the contents? That should have already been taken care of by the shipper.
In Spain you have to make a declaration and show other documents if the cost is more than 150 euros. They ask you some questions, I don't know but now I don't think changing your declaration is good. I suppose in the end I'll receive the product, but if they open it they'll ruin it.
 
L

Living sucks

no one can understand
Mar 27, 2020
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They would literally have to open the sealed plastic bag inside the outer cover. I doubt they will do this
 
L

lion4000b

Member
May 6, 2020
25
52
Hard to tell ..... one of the reasons I'm being particular about the mask setup. My final ReBreather version also has a few safety enhancements .... will be posting it in a week or so.
Sorry, did you say you bought a rebreather and added a few safety enhancements or you built your own rebreather?
 
Notabadguy

Notabadguy

Arcanist
Feb 7, 2020
526
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Is there a plastic bag inside? I LOVE YOU, YOU'RE THE BEST.
 
L

Living sucks

no one can understand
Mar 27, 2020
1,902
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Is there a plastic bag inside? I LOVE YOU, YOU'RE THE BEST.
Yes. It’s why they say if you take out the masks to test them you need to reseal the bag within 3-5 days with an iron to keep the granules fresh.
 
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Notabadguy

Notabadguy

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Feb 7, 2020
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Yes. It’s why they say if you take out the masks to test them you need to reseal the bag within 3-5 days with an iron to keep the granules fresh.
That does make sense, I thought that was refered to the outer cover, but doesn't make sense. My English is not good.
 
L

Living sucks

no one can understand
Mar 27, 2020
1,902
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531F5A3B-CB40-45EE-BCC2-9F2399E915E1.jpeg
That does make sense, I thought that was refered to the outer cover, but doesn't make sense. My English is not good.

See how the pic shows a plastic bag ... it will be sealed inside the outer cover And you have to open the plastic bag to use. If the plastic bag is opened, need to use it or reseal it within 3-5 days
 
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Notabadguy

Notabadguy

Arcanist
Feb 7, 2020
526
440
View attachment 34943


See how the pic shows a plastic bag ... it will be sealed inside the outer cover And you have to open the plastic bag to use. If the plastic bag is opened, need to use it or reseal it within 3-5 days
Why do you have to open that plastic bag? A member who bought it said to me that the plastic bag is outside the blue bag, not inside.
 
L

Living sucks

no one can understand
Mar 27, 2020
1,902
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Why do you have to open that plastic bag? A member who bought it said to me that the plastic bag is outside the blue bag, not inside.
Well i don’t have one so I can’t say.. it’s how I interpreted it from the pictures and instructions? Either way if there’s a sealed plastic bag, customs will know unsealing it may cause issues. Unless they suspected drugs or explosives i doubt they’d open it.
 
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pane

pane

Specialist
Apr 29, 2019
336
539
Why do you have to open that plastic bag? A member who bought it said to me that the plastic bag is outside the blue bag, not inside.
The main reason you'd open the plastic bag is to practice with the Debreather before actually using it for suicide, learning how to put it on, familiarizing yourself with it, getting comfortable with it on your face and so forth.
 
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Notabadguy

Notabadguy

Arcanist
Feb 7, 2020
526
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The main reason you'd open the plastic bag is to practice with the Debreather before actually using it for suicide, learning how to put it on, familiarizing yourself with it, getting comfortable with it on your face and so forth.
No, that specific plastic bag, look at the picture at post 850.
 
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L

Living sucks

no one can understand
Mar 27, 2020
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No, that specific plastic bag, look at the picture at post 850.
Ah!! This pic shows actual packaging. You are correct .. plastic bag on outside that says do not open
E3A9F4B1-7237-4C65-AE63-27B3CD2FC8D1.jpeg

I remember seeing another picture of the bag being ironed closed and believed it was inside the outer blue bag.

The packaging is certainly an issue. Not being able to open the device and inspect and play with masks is a flaw
 
TrailerTrash

TrailerTrash

Just Passing Through
Oct 10, 2019
161
420
Ah!! This pic shows actual packaging. You are correct .. plastic bag on outside that says do not open
View attachment 34953

I remember seeing another picture of the bag being ironed closed and believed it was inside the outer blue bag.

The packaging is certainly an issue. Not being able to open the device and inspect and play with masks is a flaw
Consider emailing them with that good suggestion
 
M

My_name_is_Luka

Member
Apr 28, 2020
53
82
Lol, they could also have written "opening this bag too long before use could result in failure in reaching asphyxiation", so that during shipping no one would be tempted to check the content :D
 
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GoodPersonEffed

GoodPersonEffed

Pensively Prolific
Jan 11, 2020
3,354
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If I were on the EI forum, this is what I would post and hope PN would answer there:

"SN is not peaceful, but if one survives, they can fully recover. The ReBreather is peaceful, but if it fails or if one is rescued, what will be the effects? Will there be brain or organ damage?"

@imroch, has anyone asked this on the EI forum? (I can't ever seem to tag imroch, am I misspelling this user's name?)

@enjolras, have you already provided an answer to this on this thread?

Has anyone answered this on this thread and I overlooked it?
 
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lmroch

lmroch

GoodPersonEffed is a sadistic bully & troll
Jun 24, 2019
237
619
I have been followed here by there.. Banned, for a month, more details, but I could get into trouble posting this here, right now. I would say no one should do what someone else suggests.. if you do.. you are risking your name and membership. Forever.

mouse wheel.gif
 
Ky204

Ky204

Life is both short but insufferably long
Sep 3, 2019
82
176
just saw this thread now, are there any successful attempts? brain damage seems worse than death and I’d rather go painfully then risk it
 
enjolras

enjolras

Saw the angel shine through the jellyfish
Feb 13, 2020
975
1,476
From different feedback than @Imroch, the EI forum doesn’t appear too open minded. Friendly fire is unwelcomed. We’re expected to keep novel interrogations and critical thinking quiet. My trust in every advice “outside the norm“ is very downgraded. I wouldn’t count on fresh expertise there any longer. I believe that all there is to know and little to rely on, is often the hesitation that made its way in official form already, which speaks volume.

@GoodPesonEffed it remains an enigma, though unlikely. In practice, I did find a huge collection of exit bag successes (I'm stupid I didn’t post the most relevant compilation. I don’t know if I’ll find it again - have hundreds of tabs opened, some get closed. I’ll try). Only one survival report without sequel, due to being rescued in due time (supposedly). Plus a few hypothetical (concerned about the source) interruptions (ripping the bag off), that I‘d strongly imagine voluntary (I’m rejecting the idea, from odds, of a semi-conscious effective will to interfere. It must be either a peaceful change of mind, or maybe the surprise, in control, of discomfort, which cannot be ruled out completely, imho). In theory, irreversible brain damage cannot be excluded, but the timeframe window when help should be given, before death, would be short and unlucky. I rather believe that past a threshold, there's no going back. Damn high reliability of no damage, just not a 10 (considering external circumstances & fuck ups). Peacefulness of symptoms, personally I'm less sure, not guaranteed, but rare enough, maybe 8.5-9 nonetheless. From reading only, that's where I'm at. Still, not completely confident due to the disgrace to compare apples to oranges.
 
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GoodPersonEffed

GoodPersonEffed

Pensively Prolific
Jan 11, 2020
3,354
6,510
If I were on the EI forum, this is what I would post and hope PN would answer there:

"SN is not peaceful, but if one survives, they can fully recover. The ReBreather is peaceful, but if it fails or if one is rescued, what will be the effects? Will there be brain or organ damage?"
I did some research on brain injury due to nitrogen, found this. My impression is that if the ReBreather process is interrupted when it's gone past mere nitrogen intoxication, there can be permanent brain damage. I haven't researched the impacts on lungs and heart.



Also, I read an article about nitrogen narcosis (intoxication) for SCUBA divers. The effects were what @enjolras shared on this thread for pilot training. I noted that a possible symptom is hallucinating -- some have attacked their dive buddies, tried adjusting octopi instead of their equipment, heard fish talking, etc. So this makes me concerned that if one is experiencing the narcosis and hasn't yet lost consciousness, they may hallucinate and do something to stop the ctb, or worse, something that draws attention. From reading the SCUBA article, though, it seems there is not a problem with recovery from nitrogen narcosis.


This medical jourmal article was about a Korean man who survived a nitrogen gas attempt - not a debreather - and had brain damage. He had been unconscious for several hours after the attempt, and a few days later went to the hospital with physical symptoms caused by brain damage.


I read the previously shared medical journal article with the 10 successful assisted debreather ctb's, and I understand from listening to a Vimeo presentation by Richard that the ReBreather was designed to improve on the old design and allow ctb without assistance. But no one has tested this product, and who the eff wants to be a guinea pig for potential brain damage? I really want the peaceful passing it's meant to provide, but what is the risk?

@enjolras, the ReBreather method isn't quite the same as inhaling gas from a tank of nitrogen. What is your opinion on the information I've gathered here? Right now I'm feeling scared of the ReBreather method and wondering if I could tough out the effects of SN with the propanolol potentiator, knowing that the method is certain to be successful as I won't be interrupted. With the ReBreather, I also won't be interrupted, but I am afraid of interrupting myself such as during possible hallucinations, or the method somehow not completing and I end up with brain damage.
 
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LMLN

LMLN

Visionary
Aug 10, 2019
935
3,214
I am also terrified
I did some research on brain injury due nitrogen, found this. My impression is that if the ReBreather process is interrupted when it's gone past mere nitrogen intoxication, there can be permanent brain damage. I haven't researched the impacts on lungs and heart.



Also, I read an article about nitrogen narcosis (intoxication) for SCUBA divers. The effects were what @enjolras shared on this thread for pilot training. I noted that a possible symptom is hallucinating -- some have attacked their dive buddies, tried adjusting octopi instead of their equipment, heard fish talking, etc. So this makes me concerned that if one is experiencing the narcosis and hasn't yet lost consciousness, they may hallucinate and do something to stop the ctb, or worse, something that draws attention. From reading the SCUBA article, though, it seems there is not a problem with recovery from nitrogen narcosis.


This medical jourmal article was about a Korean man who survived a nitrogen gas attempt - not a debreather - and had brain damage. He had been unconscious for several hours after the attempt, and a few days later went to the hospital with physical symptoms caused by brain damage.


I read the previously shared medical journal article with the 10 successful assisted debreather ctb's, and I understand from listening to a Vimeo presentation by Richard that the ReBreather was designed to improve on the old design and allow ctb without assistance. But no one has tested this product, and who the eff wants to be a guinea pig for potential brain damage? I really want the peaceful passing its meant to provide, but what is the risk?

@enjolras, the ReBreather method isn't quite the same as inhaling gas from a tank of nitrogen. What is your opinion on the information I've gathered here? Right now I'm feeling scared of the ReBreather method and wondering if I could tough out the effects of SN with the propanolol potentiator, knowing that the method is certain to be successful as I won't be interrupted. With the ReBreather, I also won't be interrupted, but I am afraid of interrupting myself such as during possible hallucinations, or the method somehow not completing and I end up with brain damage.
I am also very afraid of brain damage.
 
L

lion4000b

Member
May 6, 2020
25
52
With the ReBreather, I also won't be interrupted, but I am afraid of interrupting myself such as during possible hallucinations, or the method somehow not completing and I end up with brain damage.
This is also my concern. When I am semi conscious what will I do? Will my innate survival mechanism try and have me rip it off? The other possibility is tying yourself up.
 
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GoodPersonEffed

GoodPersonEffed

Pensively Prolific
Jan 11, 2020
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This is also my concern. When I am semi conscious what will I do? Will my innate survival mechanism try and have me rip it off? The other possibility is tying yourself up.
And then that's not peaceful. Also uncomfortable if the ReBreather is on the chest, lying down, hands behind.
 
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Notabadguy

Notabadguy

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Feb 7, 2020
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This is also my concern. When I am semi conscious what will I do? Will my innate survival mechanism try and have me rip it off? The other possibility is tying yourself up.
Brain damage is the huge concern, but I don't think your brain cells begim to die when you're semiunconscious, but minutes later of getting unconsciouss.
And then that's not peaceful. Also uncomfortable if the ReBreather is on the chest, lying down, hands behind.
That is still peaceful imho. On the other hand, there is a downside of tying your hands, what happens if there is leaking and you're still consciouss?
 
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GoodPersonEffed

GoodPersonEffed

Pensively Prolific
Jan 11, 2020
3,354
6,510
I did some research on brain injury due to nitrogen, found this. My impression is that if the ReBreather process is interrupted when it's gone past mere nitrogen intoxication, there can be permanent brain damage. I haven't researched the impacts on lungs and heart.



Also, I read an article about nitrogen narcosis (intoxication) for SCUBA divers. The effects were what @enjolras shared on this thread for pilot training. I noted that a possible symptom is hallucinating -- some have attacked their dive buddies, tried adjusting octopi instead of their equipment, heard fish talking, etc. So this makes me concerned that if one is experiencing the narcosis and hasn't yet lost consciousness, they may hallucinate and do something to stop the ctb, or worse, something that draws attention. From reading the SCUBA article, though, it seems there is not a problem with recovery from nitrogen narcosis.


This medical jourmal article was about a Korean man who survived a nitrogen gas attempt - not a debreather - and had brain damage. He had been unconscious for several hours after the attempt, and a few days later went to the hospital with physical symptoms caused by brain damage.


I read the previously shared medical journal article with the 10 successful assisted debreather ctb's, and I understand from listening to a Vimeo presentation by Richard that the ReBreather was designed to improve on the old design and allow ctb without assistance. But no one has tested this product, and who the eff wants to be a guinea pig for potential brain damage? I really want the peaceful passing it's meant to provide, but what is the risk?

@enjolras, the ReBreather method isn't quite the same as inhaling gas from a tank of nitrogen. What is your opinion on the information I've gathered here? Right now I'm feeling scared of the ReBreather method and wondering if I could tough out the effects of SN with the propanolol potentiator, knowing that the method is certain to be successful as I won't be interrupted. With the ReBreather, I also won't be interrupted, but I am afraid of interrupting myself such as during possible hallucinations, or the method somehow not completing and I end up with brain damage.
I went back to the R2D website, it has more information now than it did before. Maybe it said this in particular before, and maybe it's been stated on this thread, but the cause of death is hypoxia. I've gotten confused about mentions of nitrogen, but I get the impression this method is not like using nitrogen gas, so I wanted to clear that up, I don't want to spread disinformation.

I'd recommend to anyone who is concerned to research hypoxic brain injury. The first link in the quoted text was relevant.

It's also important to note that hypoxic brain injuries can lead to seizure, coma, or death. Of course the goal for us is death, but I'm thinking it might be beneficial to take diazepam before doing this method.

If one survives a hypoxic brain injury, the prognosis is not good. Not trying to cause fear, trying to make an informed decision and help others do the same. Definitely suggest doing your research. There's lot of information out there about this type of brain injury.
 
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Notabadguy

Notabadguy

Arcanist
Feb 7, 2020
526
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I have been followed here by there.. Banned, for a month, more details, but I could get into trouble posting this here, right now. I would say no one should do what someone else suggests.. if you do.. you are risking your name and membership. Forever.

We need EI info. I'm 39. Imroch, your provided us with valuable info, but you should have posted here with a different name from EI forum. It's normal they don't want to be associated with a no-medic suicide forum they don't lead.
I went back to the R2D website, it has more information now than it did before. Maybe it said this in particular before, and maybe it's been stated on this thread, but the cause of death is hypoxia. I've gotten confused about mentions of nitrogen, but I get the impression this method is not like using nitrogen gas, so I wanted to clear that up, I don't want to spread disinformation.

I'd recommend to anyone who is concerned to research hypoxic brain injury. The first link in the quoted text was relevant.

It's also important to note that hypoxic brain injuries can lead to seizure, coma, or death. Of course the goal for us is death, but I'm thinking it might be beneficial to take diazepam before doing this method.

If one survives a hypoxic brain injury, the prognosis is not good. Not trying to cause fear, trying to make an informed decision and help others do the same. Definitely suggest doing your research. There's lot of information out there about this type of brain injury.
In the 2010 study states that some patients took benzos. Besides, someone posted here sn answer from Richard Avocet saying that benzos where recommended. I don't see why, but benzos are available.
 
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