[Method] Charcoal Method Fail and Things I Learned

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GoodPersonEffed

GoodPersonEffed

I almost always edit my posts.
Jan 11, 2020
4,624
9,854
Adding to the information we have about the charcoal method. I had what I thought was a good idea, but it didn't turn out that way. However, I did gain some knowledge to share. I'm glad to answer any questions that I can, as long as they're about the method and not anything personal.

I don't have a car, my bathroom is too well-ventilated, and I don't have a closet, just a wardrobe that I can fit into, but I was concerned about the heat from the charcoal in such a cramped space, as I would have to hold the container on my lap. I also don't have a tent, however I would consider getting one if I were to attempt this method again. If I couldn't get a really quality tent, I'd probably cover it with a lot of blankets. But my situation is such that I wouldn't be in a public area, it would be private, so I can get away with doing things out of the norm as there wouldn't be any witnesses.

I have a small mesh mosquito tent meant to go over a sleeping bag, or for single-person use in a bed. It pops up in a dome over the top half of the body, and the mesh extends in the front to cover the rest of the body like a blanket. You can look it up on Amazon if interested, it's a very dark green color, I'm not going to provide a link. I covered the entire thing with several layers of sheets so that no air could get in nor CO escape, and it was stuffy under there. I'm short and of average weight, there was plenty of room for me, lots of pillows, and a large container for the charcoal.

I used a chimney starter with Kingsford charcoal. This is one of the most important parts of the method I can share, the chimney starter and the charcoal, and what I learned about them.

First, the chimney starter has to be OUTDOORS and on a raised surface so there is ventilation underneath, otherwise the newspaper will not stay lit and the charcoal won't ignite. I used an oven rack and set it on top of some glass bowls on a glass-top table (no scorch marks!), but one could also set it on top of a grill.

I stuffed newspaper into the bottom of the chimney starter and filled the chimney starter with approximately 2kg of charcoal. I lit the newspaper from the holes on the sides of the bottom of the chimney starter, as well as from underneath.

When the coals lit, they were on fire with high flames and TONS of smoke for almost an hour. Once the coals were glowing and somewhat ashy, there were still bits of low flame. By the time there was no more flame, the coals and ash had reduced to less than a third of the volume of the chimney starter. Perhaps Kingsford is not the best brand for this method. If I were to attempt again, I would try a different brand.

When the flames were no longer high, I took 40mg of diazepam. For me, diazepam takes about an hour to really start to take effect.

I transferred the barely-glowing coals and ash to a large ceramic bowl. I filled a wide, low cooking pot with ice and placed the bowl on top of the pot to draw down the heat and protect the surface of the bed, and placed both in the tent that was on the bed and covered in sheets tucked in around the tent. I left the charcoal setup in there for about 30 minutes to let the CO build up in that small space.

After thirty minutes, I got in the tent from the bottom and slid up into the domed part, so very little air got in. The space was warm but not hot. I settled in and went to sleep. I woke up the next morning with no ill effects.

At the bottom of this post, I've linked another user's experience with charcoal in a car, in which s/he noted that the glovebox melted due to the heat and the floor mat was burned when the grill got knocked over. In relation to my experience, the coals are still going to be emitting a lot of heat or they're going to turn too much to ash, so one needs a big enough space to not get too hot or to set any surfaces on fire. I've also learned that if I were to attempt again, I would need either a car or a tent, and I would get a portable barbecue and transfer the coals into that from the chimney starter and spread them out. If there was still smoke, I would take the barbecue outside, wait a bit, and try again until there was no smoke, because smoke is going to cause coughing, burning eyes, etc. One wants CO, not smoke. Then I'd wait for the CO to build up in the car or tent before entering, so as not to get sick. A PPM meter could help, and one could enter when it hits 1000 PPM or higher, however, many meters have very loud alarms that go off at around 50 PPM or less, so one needs privacy, and for that I don't have enough privacy, neighbors would hear the alarm. I've thought about this, and if I had a small tent, I would probably get two or three chimney starters and portable barbecues. One would definitely need a lot of privacy as there will be a lot of smoke and will draw attention. That would look odd at a campground.

Here's the thread I mentioned.



Y'all, I'm fine. I was calm going into this, I knew it might fail, and I was calm afterwards. I'm not traumatized in the least, so please don't worry about me or feel like you need to comfort me. It's quite kind, but unnecessary, and I'd really not like to make the thread about that. If you need to comfort yourself, I hope you'll take some time to do so! I'm more interested in answering any questions, or for there to be a constructive conversation for others considering the method, rather than expressions of comfort or concern, okay?

Emphasis on the "constructive"! I don't anticipate this happening, but please no derogatory or negating comments toward me or others who comment. Most of us are here to learn about methods, and CO is meant to be peaceful but is damn tricky, and that's why I posted this experience. Please be kind to me, and please be kind if someone asks a question or makes a comment that seems dumb to you, we can't know what we don't know until we do.
 
mpnf

mpnf

Veteran
Oct 3, 2019
133
136
No tengo ni idea de como funcione el método de monóxido de carbono pero para la proxima vez que lo intentes, te deseo suerte.
Ya es la segunda vez que intentas coger el bus y aquí sigues.
A lo mejor es que no te ha llegado la hora de partir al otro mundo?... No sé, que pases buen dia.

PD: Te escribo em español porque lo entiendes según he leido en otros post.
 
H

HadEnough1974

I try to be funny...
Jan 14, 2020
518
1,107
Adding to the information we have about the charcoal method. I had what I thought was a good idea, but it didn't turn out that way. However, I did gain some knowledge to share. I'm glad to answer any questions that I can, as long as they're about the method and not anything personal.

I don't have a car, my bathroom is too well-ventilated, and I don't have a closet, just a wardrobe that I can fit into, but I was concerned about the heat from the charcoal in such a cramped space, as I would have to hold the container on my lap. I also don't have a tent, however I would consider getting one if I were to attempt this method again. If I couldn't get a really quality tent, I'd probably cover it with a lot of blankets. But my situation is such that I wouldn't be in a public area, it would be private, so I can get away with doing things out of the norm as there wouldn't be any witnesses.

I have a small mesh mosquito tent meant to go over a sleeping bag, or for single-person use in a bed. It pops up in a dome over the top half of the body, and the mesh extends in the front to cover the rest of the body like a blanket. You can look it up on Amazon if interested, it's a very dark green color, I'm not going to provide a link. I covered the entire thing with several layers of sheets so that no air could get in nor CO escape, and it was stuffy under there. I'm short and of average weight, there was plenty of room for me, lots of pillows, and a large container for the charcoal.

I used a chimney starter with Kingsford charcoal. This is one of the most important parts of the method I can share, the chimney starter and the charcoal, and what I learned about them.

First, the chimney starter has to be OUTDOORS and on a raised surface so there is ventilation underneath, otherwise the newspaper will not stay lit and the charcoal won't ignite. I used an oven rack and set it on top of some glass bowls on a glass-top table (no scorch marks!), but one could also set it on top of a grill.

I stuffed newspaper into the bottom of the chimney starter and filled the chimney starter with approximately 2kg of charcoal. I lit the newspaper from the holes on the sides of the bottom of the chimney starter, as well as from underneath.

When the coals lit, they were on fire with high flames and TONS of smoke for almost an hour. Once the coals were glowing and somewhat ashy, there were still bits of low flame. By the time there was no more flame, the coals and ash had reduced to less than a third of the volume of the chimney starter. Perhaps Kingsford is not the best brand for this method. If I were to attempt again, I would try a different brand.

When the flames were no longer high, I took 40mg of diazepam. For me, diazepam takes about an hour to really start to take effect.

I transferred the barely-glowing coals and ash to a large ceramic bowl. I filled a wide, low cooking pot with ice and placed the bowl on top of the pot to draw down the heat and protect the surface of the bed, and placed both in the tent that was on the bed and covered in sheets tucked in around the tent. I left the charcoal setup in there for about 30 minutes to let the CO build up in that small space.

After thirty minutes, I got in the tent from the bottom and slid up into the domed part, so very little air got in. The space was warm but not hot. I settled in and went to sleep. I woke up the next morning with no ill effects.

At the bottom of this post, I've linked another user's experience with charcoal in a car, in which s/he noted that the glovebox melted due to the heat and the floor mat was burned when the grill got knocked over. In relation to my experience, the coals are still going to be emitting a lot of heat or they're going to turn too much to ash, so one needs a big enough space to not get too hot or to set any surfaces on fire. I've also learned that if I were to attempt again, I would need either a car or a tent, and I would get a portable barbecue and transfer the coals into that from the chimney starter and spread them out. If there was still smoke, I would take the barbecue outside, wait a bit, and try again until there was no smoke, because smoke is going to cause coughing, burning eyes, etc. One wants CO, not smoke. Then I'd wait for the CO to build up in the car or tent before entering, so as not to get sick. A PPM meter could help, and one could enter when it hits 1000 PPM or higher, however, many meters have very loud alarms that go off at around 50 PPM or less, so one needs privacy, and for that I don't have enough privacy, neighbors would hear the alarm. I've thought about this, and if I had a small tent, I would probably get two or three chimney starters and portable barbecues. One would definitely need a lot of privacy as there will be a lot of smoke and will draw attention. That would look odd at a campground.

Here's the thread I mentioned.



Y'all, I'm fine. I was calm going into this, I knew it might fail, and I was calm afterwards. I'm not traumatized in the least, so please don't worry about me or feel like you need to comfort me. It's quite kind, but unnecessary, and I'd really not like to make the thread about that. If you need to comfort yourself, I hope you'll take some time to do so! I'm more interested in answering any questions, or for there to be a constructive conversation for others considering the method, rather than expressions of comfort or concern, okay?

Emphasis on the "constructive"! I don't anticipate this happening, but please no derogatory or negating comments toward me or others who comment. Most of us are here to learn about methods, and CO is meant to be peaceful but is damn tricky, and that's why I posted this experience. Please be kind to me, and please be kind if someone asks a question or makes a comment that seems dumb to you, we can't know what we don't know until we do.
Hello dear,

So I have many questions. First, about the tent. You said it’s a mesh mosquito tent. And that you put several sheets over it. I see a potential problem there. Only a plastic sheet or a plastic tarp can make it air tight.

Also, the plastic needs to extend to the floor and you need to weigh it down firmly so that the CO does not escape.

Also, did you use and fire starters apart from the newspapers? The flames were higher for an hour. I’ve done bbqs where the flames are not very high. Perhaps it’s the coal that you used as you mentioned in your post.

The coal itself, were they square bricks or just broken up charcoal?

Now let me try to say something funny... nope, not gonna do that.

Try actually barbecuing with the coals, like make something. Something oily. I’ve read of so many people who made a bbq and later brought it into the tent.

Perhaps the oils dripping from the steak does something to the coals which makes them give off more co?

Those are my thoughts. Thank you for sharing.
A thought... no ill effects at all? No nausea, no headache, mild confusion?
 
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GoodPersonEffed

GoodPersonEffed

I almost always edit my posts.
Jan 11, 2020
4,624
9,854
Hello dear,

So I have many questions. First, about the tent. You said it’s a mesh mosquito tent. And that you put several sheets over it. I see a potential problem there. Only a plastic sheet or a plastic tarp can make it air tight.

Also, the plastic needs to extend to the floor and you need to weigh it down firmly so that the CO does not escape.

Also, did you use and fire starters apart from the newspapers? The flames were higher for an hour. I’ve done bbqs where the flames are not very high. Perhaps it’s the coal that you used as you mentioned in your post.

The coal itself, were they square bricks or just broken up charcoal?

Now let me try to say something funny... nope, not gonna do that.

Try actually barbecuing with the coals, like make something. Something oily. I’ve read of so many people who made a bbq and later brought it into the tent.

Perhaps the oils dripping from the steak does something to the coals which makes them give off more co?

Those are my thoughts. Thank you for sharing.
Happy to answer.

Good point about the tent. That may help others if they want to try it. For me, I think it's impractical to try again because the coals need to be hotter to not burn down so much, and the space is just too small for that kind of heat. Either that, or I need different coals. At this point, I'm just not motivated to try the method again but will keep that in mind for sure if I do try again, even with a larger tent, which is likely what I'd do. Thanks for the idea.

Fire starters were not necessary, I didn't use them.

The coals were rounded square briquettes.

Thank you for holding back! :pfff: Much respect!

I read a warning to not barbecue and get oils on the charcoal, it came from a defunct suicide forum, I got the link from @Living sucks and I shared the text on the CO megathread in April or May. I don't know if it makes a difference or not. But I do not have a barbecue, just the chimney starter.
 
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H

HadEnough1974

I try to be funny...
Jan 14, 2020
518
1,107
And zero I’ll effects? No nausea, headache?
oh, if you’ve been a bad boy or girl I hear Santa puts coals in your Christmas’s socks. Write him a letter asking for the “suicide coals”.

Which brings us to the question, how do we determine which coal is best?
And zero I’ll effects? No nausea, headache?
oh, if you’ve been a bad boy or girl I hear Santa puts coals in your Christmas’s socks. Write him a letter asking for the “suicide coals”.

Which brings us to the question, how do we determine which coal is best?
So seriously, I have Sn, Meto, a bag of coals, chimney starter and a rope with a nose already tied under my bed. I’ve already measured 25 g of Sn in 3 separate ziplock bags and three water bottles with exactly 50 ml of water pre measured.

Leaning towards Sn. Would you consider combining the Sn method with charcoal method?
 
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GoodPersonEffed

GoodPersonEffed

I almost always edit my posts.
Jan 11, 2020
4,624
9,854
And zero I’ll effects? No nausea, headache?


Which brings us to the question, how do we determine which coal is best?


Leaning towards Sn. Would you consider combining the Sn method with charcoal method?
Zero ill effects. I had a damn good night's sleep with 40mg of diazepam.

From reading the shitshow of a CO megathread, the best charcoal is sold in Asian countries. Determining the best charcoal outside of Asia is an ongoing question, I haven't seen anything on the forum that has given even close to a definitive answer.

I personally would not consider combining the methods, but @faust has a thread going about that. He is working out a plan to combine them, I highly recommend checking it out. For me, CO is just too complicated without a tent, or maybe even with a tent. I have full confidence in SN without the CO, although I could see how it would stop the uncomfortable SN symptoms if the PPM were high enough as I would lose consciousness and maybe even die quickly, but fuck, that's what I want from CO in the first place, a quick and peaceful death. If I go with SN, which will not be as peaceful, and will take up to 40 minutes based on reports such as Moonicide's, then I'll just fully focus on gearing up for and calmly (as much as I can) powering through the symptoms of that experience, which will be challenging if multiple symptoms occur at once. If I add all the logistics of prepping for CO, it's just too much for me to pay attention to at once. I've learned with my last two attempts (ReBreather and CO) that I do best if I am grounded, calm, and focused on everything I'm doing and experiencing, so that I can remain grounded and calm. I don't want to freak out, that just makes it so much harder. I want to calmly exit the party of life gone bad, not flee in a panic.
 
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I

InTheAirTonight

I tried
Feb 29, 2020
424
920
Do you think the main problem was your tent setup wasn't airtight enough, allowing too much CO to escape? Or do you attribute it to something else?

Have you considered the TPI 707 CO meter which measures up to 10000 ppm? Also was mentioned/recommended in the PPH but it's quite expensive and seems to be the only way to measure if you've reached the desirable ppm levels (8000+). Do you know if it (or any other tool) continuously measures CO, or does it require a button push each time you want a reading?

What is the purpose of a portable barbecue? Is it just to hold the hot charcoal briquettes? Would an aluminum tray not work?

I heard the effects of CO exposure sometimes occur several days after the exposure. Are you worried about this?

Thanks for documenting your experience. It's a tough method to pull off.
 
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GoodPersonEffed

GoodPersonEffed

I almost always edit my posts.
Jan 11, 2020
4,624
9,854
Do you think the main problem was your tent setup wasn't airtight enough, allowing too much CO to escape? Or do you attribute it to something else?
Good question. I didn't make this clear in the OP. I attribute it to the coals burning down to way too much ash. Like I said in the OP, the volume was about a third of the full chimney starter before I lit the coals.

In that very small space, there should have been a heck of a build-up of CO. I know it wasn't air-tight, but it was stuffy, I mean WAY stuffier than a regular tent would be with all the windows and doors zipped up. (@HadEnough1974, I think that's important to note.)

Have you considered the TPI 707 CO meter which measures up to 10000 ppm? Also was mentioned/recommended in the PPH but it's quite expensive and seems to be the only way to measure if you've reached the desirable ppm levels (8000+). Do you know if it (or any other tool) continuously measures CO, or does it require a button push each time you want a reading?
No, but I'm in Mexico, so I'm pretty limited about what products I can get. Sometimes I can get them imported, but I actually had a time constraint for using this method, so I went ahead without a meter. The ones I could have gotten delivered in a timely manner are too loud and the alarms start going off around 50 PPM or less, I didn't want the possibility of interference if an alarm kept going off. I don't have any knowledge about the meter you're talking about, I'd suggest posting on the CO megathread, and also using the site search (if you haven't already) to see if anyone else has talked about it.

What is the purpose of a portable barbecue? Is it just to hold the hot charcoal briquettes? Would an aluminum tray not work?
Yes, to hold the hot charcoal briquettes as well as to spread them out so that some coals aren't trapping the CO from the coals beneath them. An aluminum tray will be too thin and can cause heat damage to whatever is beneath it, as I think the coals should probably still be emitting some heat. I've read that even cooled-off coals can emit heat and cause death, but after this experience, I personally would go for emitting heat but not smoking; however, if I were wrong about that, too, it would not come as a shock.

I heard the effects of CO exposure sometimes occur several days after the exposure. Are you worried about this?
Another good question. It's been around a week and I'm fine. So no, I'm not worried. But if I have any symptoms I'll update the thread.

Thanks for documenting your experience. It's a tough method to pull off.
My pleasure. It's a right pain in the ass and I wish we had more reliable info laid out like the SN regimen, since it promises a truly peaceful exit if done right.
 
Soul

Soul

gate gate paragate parasamgate bodhi svaha
Apr 12, 2019
4,143
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@GoodPersonEffed, thanks as always for sharing your experience in detail. Would you consider adding a link to it to the CO megathread?

I've taken a lot of vicarious interest in this method (it's another one my lungs are probably too messed up for), and I do recall reading here about the very high cost of the CO meter that measures high enough to be useful for our purposes; I don't recall whether the exact name was given, though.

I once posted an article comparing the CO output of various charcoal types and tools. I'll try to find that but from memory a leaf blower inside a sealed space was the champion. Not quiet, but ... ? I'll try to find the article.

Meanwhile, it sounds to me like a combination of uncooperative charcoal with inadequate air-tightness. But then, as you've said, it's a strangely tricky method to get right, especially considering the frequency of accidental CO/charcoal deaths.

My lungs have a scholarly recommendation for your lungs: Ensure plenty of fresh-air intake for a while.
 
GoodPersonEffed

GoodPersonEffed

I almost always edit my posts.
Jan 11, 2020
4,624
9,854
@GoodPersonEffed, thanks as always for sharing your experience in detail. Would you consider adding a link to it to the CO megathread?
My pleasure to do so. And I already did! :pfff:


I once posted an article comparing the CO output of various charcoal types and tools. I'll try to find that but from memory a leaf blower inside a sealed space was the champion. Not quiet, but ... ? I'll try to find the article.
I'd be interested to see that!

I always appreciate on the forum how you track down posts and share them. To me, it is generous and kind.

Thanks for your comments. :heart:
 
M

meerpasta

Member
Jan 29, 2020
46
106
I'm sorry it didn't work out for you, thanks for posting about it, I'm currently preparing for this method so this is helpful.

Might be the case that asian charcoal is much more effective at producing CO, but it's such a widespread method over there that I feel like authorities would've jumped on a chance to downgrade the lethality of charcoal with western production methods since I've read about how they're looking to cover up information about it online and lessen the media reports of it. Either way briquettes might be the best choice, Jonghyun killed himself by putting them in a frying pan in his apartment and laying down near it, specific amount is unknown but you can't really fill a frying pan more than you can a grill or even a chimney starter so it should speak for its effectiveness.

Perhaps weight is also a factor? I haven't seen anyone mention it but asians are on average a little shorter and have way less overweight/obese people than in many western countries. I imagine bigger bodies means more blood for the CO to bind to before it reaches lethal levels.

Try practicing pouring the coals out of the chimney starter when the flames are still there but low, they'll often cool down a little and stop producing any flames or smoke since being tightly packed in the chimney starter with its constant airflow makes them hotter. If your charcoals are already mostly burnt out then they might not have much CO left to produce.
 
Soul

Soul

gate gate paragate parasamgate bodhi svaha
Apr 12, 2019
4,143
8,581
My pleasure to do so. And I already did! :pfff:




I'd be interested to see that!

I always appreciate on the forum how you track down posts and share them. To me, it is generous and kind.

Thanks for your comments. :heart:
I haven't yet tracked down the article I posted here last year, but here's a similar one:

This one looks relevant to the issues with different types of charcoal:


And the "similar articles" searches are packed with interesting-looking studies.
 
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L

Living sucks

Forced out of life before I wanted to leave
Mar 27, 2020
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Jesus, I can read every advice to get passed SI but I can’t do it now. I had no SI the first time I tried. I just went for it. If only I was drinking SN then and not potassium salts. But that experience has caused my SI and guilt and fear.
Do you think at all that you had less fear in these 2 attempts bcuz there was the high chance of failure? My situation is getting dire but the thought of SN scares me as much as suffering for another year. Sounds stupid but it’s not.
 
GoodPersonEffed

GoodPersonEffed

I almost always edit my posts.
Jan 11, 2020
4,624
9,854
Jesus, I can read every advice to get passed SI but I can’t do it now. I had no SI the first time I tried. I just went for it. If only I was drinking SN then and not potassium salts. But that experience has caused my SI and guilt and fear.
Do you think at all that you had less fear in these 2 attempts bcuz there was the high chance of failure? My situation is getting dire but the thought of SN scares me as much as suffering for another year. Sounds stupid but it’s not.
I'm sorry you're experiencing these things, and it doesn't sound stupid to me.

However, a gentle reminder that in the OP I set a limit that I was only open to answering questions about the method, not about anything personal. I want to maintain the narrow focus that I intended for the thread.
 
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faust

faust

lost among the stars
Jan 26, 2020
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@GoodPersonEffed It is getting more interesting, because the more questions I ask, the more questions and facts which need a proof appear, even worth creating a separate thread.
 
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I

InTheAirTonight

I tried
Feb 29, 2020
424
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Just bringing up this FAQ from Kingsford's website:

https://www.kingsford.com/faq/ said:
Kingsford® Original Charcoal
  • I’ve heard that Kingsford® charcoal has changed. What’s different?
    Hide Answer-Kingsford constantly strives to make its charcoal even better for both seasoned experts as well as new grillers. In January 2015, Kingsford is adding wood char and increasing airflow in its briquets, so Kingsford® charcoal will light easier and heat faster, but burn as long as ever. The formula changes make each briquet slightly lighter in weight, but the amount of usages per bag remains the same
They mentioned somehow increasing airflow in their briquets since 2015, wonder if that has much effect on the CO production.
 
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Meditation guide

Meditation guide

Arcanist
Jun 22, 2020
513
666
I've read of so many who did it in a car with a grill, in a van with a grill, in a bathroom with two grills. it is successful quite a bit from what I keep reading.
If you tried and didn't even feel sick something was wrong. I've had monoxide poisoning mildly from leaving a car running in a garage and felt like I had the flu.
So a meter is really a must to see if you are generating an amount of hopefully at least 3000 and hopefully at least 6000 PPM> Less than that is going to make you very sick but you will still be well enough to get away from it.

That meter that goes up to 10,000 is about $700. And don't forget they have to be calibrated correctly and re calibrated every six months by sending them somewhere. I'm still thinking of getting one, after all I don't need my savings too much longer.
 
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L

Living sucks

Forced out of life before I wanted to leave
Mar 27, 2020
3,126
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There’s really good into from Joannf in this thread. They seemed to be very knowledgeable on CO