[Discussion] Am I selfish if I have kids and ctb?

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Sideswipe

Sideswipe

I have 2 Simian Palms... DNA is [email protected]£ked
Nov 20, 2019
179
389
England UK
The kids topic,.. sure this isn’t the first or last.
I have kids and I feel like I’n being really selfish trying to arrange tickets to Ctb when I know they are going to need me.
I’m just so damn screwed up I weigh up if my presence is worse than my death

maybe I should have been neutered when I was diagnosed....

I have been to the edge and come back before but I cannot keep going without some kind of change.. thats not going to happen..
 
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ArtVandelay

Wise
Apr 15, 2019
268
658
I won't say that it's selfish but it will be extremely unfair to the kids. You may think they'll be better off without you, but if you ctb it will screw them up for the rest of their lives. Please stick around for their sake.
 
Sideswipe

Sideswipe

I have 2 Simian Palms... DNA is [email protected]£ked
Nov 20, 2019
179
389
England UK
What about the theory of parents with MH issues fucking their kids up anyway? Like I’ve been told it for the last 14 years that I’m going to “ruin” them with learned behaviour. It doesn’t help that I have a close friend who wants to go with me and triggers me alot..
 
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Ark

Master
Oct 18, 2019
415
1,404
This is a VERY tough situation. One I know all to well. There is no easy answer for it either. I have seen kids lose parents early and turn out really well with the right support and upbringing, and I am sure sometimes it does much more long term damage to some.

I have a younger one myself, and she knows about my health issues and my emotional pain also. She wanted a recording of me singing you are my sunshine to her so she will have it forever. My older kids, my ex wife, and all of our family will be there for her in every way her entire life.

I hate that this will hurt her, I would fight demons or the devil himself to spare her any pain. It also doesn't help that the person she viewed as a second mother to her broke her heart in a terrible way also. But, I am a useless shell of pain and torment and anguish. I wish I had a way to fix myself, health wise and emotionally but neither are an option for me.

CTB is the only option for me to not experience torment every moment and my baby girl understands how painful my life is. I believe that she will understand even more so as she gets older, I am writing letters for several stages of her life, and my other children will be there to answer questions as she gets older.

I agree we should do anything and everything for our children, but I also know that sometimes we have to make hard decisions that people will not understand. Trust me, I thought through everything, I have tried everything, if there was any way to make me or my situation better, I would. If not for me, if not for anyone else, I would for her.
 
Absurdity

Absurdity

Member
Nov 22, 2019
29
49
Wow, what a heartbreaking situation..
I don't judge you for considering CTB, I'm sure there are situations where I could support it. But it's very complicated..

Also depends on the age of the children a lot.

I'm very glad I don't have to consider this..
 
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Ark

Master
Oct 18, 2019
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Thank you @Absurdity You are right, it is very complicated, and there are lots of variables to each individual situation. I spend a lot of time each day thinking about how this will effect her.
 
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Sweet emotion

Sweet emotion

Illuminated
Sep 14, 2019
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I don't think it's selfish. But it's very sad. It's sad for the children. It's a very hard decision to make, I can't even imagine. This is just one reason why I think that if you have chronic depression maybe having kids isn't the best idea. Not until it's been gotten under control for a long period of time. I'm very sorry you're finding yourself in this situation. It's really heart breaking. And I'm very sorry.
 
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awfullife

Member
Nov 16, 2019
62
120
Wish somebody would've told me about not having kids. Bottom line is like alot of things in life it is hard to put yourself in somebody else's shoes. I have 2 young kids and I never see them. The abandonment occurred after the divorce 4 years ago so they have a healthier distance from me now. Now I see them once a year or so. Phone calls once a week last about 3-4 minutes. From a kids perspective, it would be better if their dad was near them and could do things together and everything would be great. From a real life perspective, it's just not going to happen. Making $400 a week after child support will not support 1 human being independently in USA let alone extra weekend get togethers and hang outs. I used to have a pretty cool connection with my kids and I love them so. The connection is gone but the love is still there. When I CTB, it will be a pisser and life will suck for a while. But as I've found out in supreme fashion the last few years, life isn't fair and it will kick you in the balls. HARD. Sorry.

BTW, I'm a highly codependant guy who was married to a spouse with BPD. My daughter has BPD and my son has autism.
My only hope to not CBT is to make alot of money with equity options on quasi inside information. I am willing to take the risk but like everything in life risking everything carries great consequences and failure will ultimately lead to CTB.

Crazy world we live in. 10 years ago I was driving a green Porsche 911 and living the good life traveling the world and was considered a local expert in my highly respected field. Now it's all over.
 
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Sideswipe

Sideswipe

I have 2 Simian Palms... DNA is [email protected]£ked
Nov 20, 2019
179
389
England UK
I don't think it's selfish. But it's very sad. It's sad for the children. It's a very hard decision to make, I can't even imagine. This is just one reason why I think that if you have chronic depression maybe having kids isn't the best idea. Not until it's been gotten under control for a long period of time. I'm very sorry you're finding yourself in this situation. It's really heart breaking. And I'm very sorry.
I wasn’t diagnosed until I had my first with post natel depression and a good 5 years later was diagnosed with BPD. When I chose to have my 2nd I was really stable. It was two years after baby 2 that things changed again for the worst. They are quite literally the only reason I’m hanging in there still. I work hard to make them emotionally intelligent kids and so far it’s all well, they are amazing.
Wish somebody would've told me about not having kids. Bottom line is like alot of things in life it is hard to put yourself in somebody else's shoes. I have 2 young kids and I never see them. The abandonment occurred after the divorce 4 years ago so they have a healthier distance from me now. Now I see them once a year or so. Phone calls once a week last about 3-4 minutes. From a kids perspective, it would be better if their dad was near them and could do things together and everything would be great. From a real life perspective, it's just not going to happen. Making $400 a week after child support will not support 1 human being independently in USA let alone extra weekend get togethers and hang outs. I used to have a pretty cool connection with my kids and I love them so. The connection is gone but the love is still there. When I CTB, it will be a pisser and life will suck for a while. But as I've found out in supreme fashion the last few years, life isn't fair and it will kick you in the balls. HARD. Sorry.

BTW, I'm a highly codependant guy who was married to a spouse with BPD. My daughter has BPD and my son has autism.
My only hope to not CBT is to make alot of money with equity options on quasi inside information. I am willing to take the risk but like everything in life risking everything carries great consequences and failure will ultimately lead to CTB.

Crazy world we live in. 10 years ago I was driving a green Porsche 911 and living the good life traveling the world and was considered a local expert in my highly respected field. Now it's all over.
That sounds tough.... I’m BPD so I know how difficult it can be to live with someone who is. Sorry your daughter has it too. It’s said to be learned behaviour if your child follows in a parents footsteps down the BPD road.. not a big believer of it myself though. My boy has something.. not sure what yet as he is stil being diagnosed but looking like ADHD and Autism with severe memory problems... life dealt him a shit hand of cards.
 
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EmptyArms

EmptyArms

Veteran
Dec 1, 2019
148
406
Im so sorry you are feeling such torment. Here's my tale, or part of it.
My ex CTB..well kinda..he jumped off a flyover and somehow lived a further 10 months..when my son was 11 years old. The impact it had on him was instantaneous, profound and irreversible. He went from the gentlest boy to very angry and, at times, violent. He felt he wasnt enough for his dad to stay despite a note to him to the contrary from his dad and endless support through family, counsellors etc. He is now 23, struggles to maintain relationships of any kind, including with me, and has suicidal thoughts often. Just an anecdotal tale, but there it is. There is more to it but that part stands alone I think.
 
Sideswipe

Sideswipe

I have 2 Simian Palms... DNA is [email protected]£ked
Nov 20, 2019
179
389
England UK
Im so sorry you are feeling such torment. Here's my tale, or part of it.
My ex CTB..well kinda..he jumped off a flyover and somehow lived a further 10 months..when my son was 11 years old. The impact it had on him was instantaneous, profound and irreversible. He went from the gentlest boy to very angry and, at times, violent. He felt he wasnt enough for his dad to stay despite a note to him to the contrary from his dad and endless support through family, counsellors etc. He is now 23, struggles to maintain relationships of any kind, including with me, and has suicidal thoughts often. Just an anecdotal tale, but there it is. There is more to it but that part stands alone I think.
Wow that is very insightful.. I think my son would forget me, it’s my daughter that I worry about. She’s extremely intelligent
 
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piupianissimo

Member
Nov 27, 2019
26
57
This is a VERY tough situation. One I know all to well. There is no easy answer for it either. I have seen kids lose parents early and turn out really well with the right support and upbringing, and I am sure sometimes it does much more long term damage to some.

I have a younger one myself, and she knows about my health issues and my emotional pain also. She wanted a recording of me singing you are my sunshine to her so she will have it forever. My older kids, my ex wife, and all of our family will be there for her in every way her entire life.

I hate that this will hurt her, I would fight demons or the devil himself to spare her any pain. It also doesn't help that the person she viewed as a second mother to her broke her heart in a terrible way also. But, I am a useless shell of pain and torment and anguish. I wish I had a way to fix myself, health wise and emotionally but neither are an option for me.

CTB is the only option for me to not experience torment every moment and my baby girl understands how painful my life is. I believe that she will understand even more so as she gets older, I am writing letters for several stages of her life, and my other children will be there to answer questions as she gets older.

I agree we should do anything and everything for our children, but I also know that sometimes we have to make hard decisions that people will not understand. Trust me, I thought through everything, I have tried everything, if there was any way to make me or my situation better, I would. If not for me, if not for anyone else, I would for her.
@Ark thanks for sharing. This hit me hard as i also have very close ties with my family but don’t know how to break it to them.
I can’t get over what a loving, caring, thoughtful and kind person you are despite all the pain you’re going through. Your daughter seems to be a sweet angel as well. I hope you find peace and I’m sure your kids will be strong, loving people as you are. Hugs ❤
 
Soulless_Angel

Soulless_Angel

existence is futile
Jul 10, 2019
2,234
3,932
F**k Knows
I am a mum myself, my Mental health only truely showed itself this year, when my youngest was coming up to her 5th birthday, I won't go into the ins and outs of having children when you are on this path, this is a debate that is often on this forum, and it can get frustrating!
Either way, I am regularly told I am unfit to parent by professional's, and apparently it's only my husband keeping the family together.
I know it can be classed as being selfish, but when you are causing your children nothing but misery heartache and a child hood theywill look back on witih hate and bad memories, I feel in my case it will be better when I am not here
 
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Ark

Master
Oct 18, 2019
415
1,404
@piupianissimo Thank you so much. I too have come to believe that she will be ok. Although I hope that is not just my way of convincing myself to be ok with my decision.

I would do or give anything to change things. But, I have no control over the things causing the pain in my life, physically or emotionally.

Your words mean a lot to me, and I appreciate them more than I can express. And you are right, she is an angel.
 
lunarpoppies420

lunarpoppies420

Wise
Oct 14, 2019
295
826
Both of my parents ctb, my dad when I was 18 and my mom when I was 21, so I'll give it to you straight from someone who's been through it.
When my dad did it it blindsided everyone. Nobody knew what we were going to do, and he didn't leave a note so we didn't have a reason. We later found out from a friend he confided in that it was due to legal trouble he was in. My dad and I were never close and I don't dwell on it too much but it changed a lot for everyone else and set the ball rolling for my mom to ctb.
My mom's was much more clear cut, everyone knew it was coming, she suffered from the loss of my dad for three years, during which she made constant attempts. She left a note, although everyone already knew why. In her case it was almost a relief that her suffering was over. I understand her motives and that she did what she felt was best for her.
I'm not trying to guilt you or make you feel any type of way with these stories. In all honesty I don't think the feelings of the living are the same in every suicide. The circumstances and their understanding of what you're going through combined with their own attitudes towards death are what will make the difference.
 
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Ark

Master
Oct 18, 2019
415
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@lunarpoppies420 Thank you for sharing your experiences and insight. I am sorry for what you have endured. My daughter and I are very close emotionally, even though we live in different cities now.
 
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Final Escape

I’ve been here too long
Jul 8, 2018
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I think your kids should be a huge reason u don’t ctb but I also understand that life can become so complicated where u believe that your kids will be better off because u aren’t measuring up as a parent.
 
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LittleJem

Wizard
Jul 3, 2019
640
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I don't have kids myself, but have been holding onto life so I don't upset my mum. I've tried 2 medications (kind of 4, but 2 for long enough), a million natural remedies, every psychedelic. Today I am feeling better on a(nother) new natural remedy, but everything that works for me seems to conk out after two weeks, so not going to get excited about this.

Re kids and suicide - my ex's father hung himself and his daughter who was a child at the time discovered him. I'm sure with all your forethought and different locations, you wouldn't do that. Then his father's family blamed the mother (which is entirely unfair). This family have found it very hard to carry this pain.

Saying that,

Re suicide in general, I wish that wanting to kill yourself was seen as a legitimate illness, just like for example cancer. I also wish that it was seen as a terminal illness. For me, I am telling my family to find times to say goodbye to me, in case I can no longer endure this suffering. I want to prepare them for when I go. If I had terminal cancer, there would be no choice but for people to accept my forthcoming death. I don't see why incurable suffering and mental illness should be seen any differently, the kindest thing is to let people end their suffering.

I agree this is harder with children - but I personally believe that whether this suffering is genetic, or circumstantial eg from abuse, there comes a time when we should accept people have the right to choose to die.
 
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Jean4

Jean4

Remember. I am ALWAYS right.... until I’m not
Apr 28, 2019
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No kids that have cats who are my kids and my world. During my last attempt, all I could think about my cats who trust me and need me. They would be PTS when I CTB. One of the reasons I am still here and I so desperately want to go. It isn’t right that they would be killed. They are innocent and so happy.
 
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Ark

Master
Oct 18, 2019
415
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I also have a cat, who recently has become very loving. I think he knows on some level what is going on. My daughter has promised to take care of him and love him his entire life.
 
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Jean4

Jean4

Remember. I am ALWAYS right.... until I’m not
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I also have a cat, who recently has become very loving. I think he knows on some level what is going on. My daughter has promised to take care of him and love him his entire life.
I am glad you have someone. I don’t. They do know. Smarter than most humans ;)
 
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Sideswipe

Sideswipe

I have 2 Simian Palms... DNA is [email protected]£ked
Nov 20, 2019
179
389
England UK
My pets would be looked after. I won’t list them as they are a specific mix but I have a cat who is very much my daughters. The dogs change with time.. I’ve seen many live their full lives and others die young. Most recently one of my pups was in an aful accident right infront of me. Had tremendous show potential. I could do nothing to bring him back thou I tried desperately for 30 minutes... Thank you al for you insights and experiences, I cannot imagine its easy to share. On the pets note... we are allowed to end their suffering yet not our own...
 
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Littleone

Member
Oct 29, 2019
28
36
@piupianissimo Thank you so much. I too have come to believe that she will be ok. Although I hope that is not just my way of convincing myself to be ok with my decision.
Dear @Ark, my dad ctb and, after thinking a lot about it, I have come to the conclusion that he had to make up a false image of me being good without him, and he idealized my mental strength to be able to do it.
I'm not saying your daughter won't be able to get through it, because It will depend on several factors (such as the emocional support she could receive from other loved ones and so), but I can tell you that it will be the most painful thing ever. She will have to dedicate a huge amount of energy and effort to deal with it, and it will have an effect on each and every one of the things of her present and future life.
I'm sorry I don't know what is exactly your problem, and nobody but you can evaluate your options. If you have tried everything I only wish you a gentle leaving and all my love and support to your daughter.
 
A

Ark

Master
Oct 18, 2019
415
1,404
Thank you for sharing your experience. I am sorry you went through it. I truly am.

I have dealt with physical pain my entire life, it was always hard but you start to accept it as a part of life.

I have lost many loved ones throughout my life and it always hit me harder than others thought it should. But I always endured, mostly for others.

Then I lost the one person in my life that made all of my pain bearable. The pain never went away, but I was able to live through it. Not only did I lose her, but shortly after I was told I needed to look forward to a fight with a terminal illness that would be the fight of my life. And I am going to have to enter this fight alone.

The one person who I gave every bit of me for the last 5 years, in every possible way, knows of my situation and wants nothing to do with even saying good bye to me.

I live on my couch, in constant pain, physical and emotional. I cry constantly, can't sleep, and just constantly pray that I have one nice dream and never wake up.

The one thing I never want to do is hurt my beautiful baby girl. But I can not continue this existence of pain and crying until I die a slow painful death, alone.
 
L

Littleone

Member
Oct 29, 2019
28
36
Thank you for sharing your experience. I am sorry you went through it. I truly am.

I have dealt with physical pain my entire life, it was always hard but you start to accept it as a part of life.

I have lost many loved ones throughout my life and it always hit me harder than others thought it should. But I always endured, mostly for others.

Then I lost the one person in my life that made all of my pain bearable. The pain never went away, but I was able to live through it. Not only did I lose her, but shortly after I was told I needed to look forward to a fight with a terminal illness that would be the fight of my life. And I am going to have to enter this fight alone.

The one person who I gave every bit of me for the last 5 years, in every possible way, knows of my situation and wants nothing to do with even saying good bye to me.

I live on my couch, in constant pain, physical and emotional. I cry constantly, can't sleep, and just constantly pray that I have one nice dream and never wake up.

The one thing I never want to do is hurt my beautiful baby girl. But I can not continue this existence of pain and crying until I die a slow painful death, alone.
I'm so sorry to hear that. I think that your situation makes it easy to understand your decision. Maybe not now if your daughter is too small (I don't know), but I'm sure she would in a future.
Your reasons are more than understandable. I do understand my dad motives (he lost my mother, who was very sick), and I still can reproache him that he didn't fight against his terrible pain for me, but in the case he had had a terminal disease I would have totally understood and forgive him. I know I'm what he loved the most, but he couldn't live "alone" with that pain. If your daughter is a smart and sensitive girl, as she seems to be, I'm certain that she would forgive you and have a lovely memory of you.
Even so, it is a pity that my dad couldn't talk to me about his decision because I would have liked to say good bye, and it's a pity you cannot tell your child because she is too small. This life is so unfair.
Even if you feel alone now, you can think that you take with you the love you have received these past years (it's great you could live that) and your children love forever. They will remember you.
 
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Ark

Master
Oct 18, 2019
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@Littleone
Thank you so much for your kindness. My baby girl does know that I am very sick. She has hope that I will somehow beat it. And prays for that every day. She also prays her other mom that left will come back to her soon. She has so much hope, and that depresses me further.

You are right. This life is very unfair to so many.
 
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