Alright time for a little pro life thread

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cornflowerblue

cornflowerblue

-
Feb 19, 2019
563
798
USA
I'll reiterate my personal stance in response - why is there the implicit assumption that we need to 'try everything else' before we CTB?

I don't understand why there seems to be this need to make suicide seem justified by experience. If you don't want to try to get better even if you've only tried 5% of all possible options, how does that make your decision invalid? For instance, I've been to a couple of therapy sessions with the university's consulting therapist, and found him to be useless. I have looked at the cost of therapy in my country, and concluded that it's too expensive for me, considering that I've now gotten myself into a position where I cannot get a good job. Thus, I have concluded that I will not be able to lead a decent life comparable to the people around me, and thus I've decided that I would like to CTB. I don't see why suicide needs to be treated like a 'last resort' option - it seems perfectly rational to treat it like any other choice in our lives.

TL;DR I don't see why we need to wait for things to get impossibly bad to CTB. I know my life is headed for the dumps, I would like to end it before it gets there. Yes, I do have a pretty decent life now in terms of amenities available to me, but I don't see why I should have to avoid CTBing because of that.

Also, note that the example is just that - an example. I hope that the central abstract point remains clear.
It doesn’t make your decision invalid, but it can make your rationale invalid if you’re saying “I have to CTB because there’s no other choice, there’s nothing left for me to try” instead of just admitting you don’t want to try.
 
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RM5998

RM5998

Sack of Meat
Sep 3, 2018
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I`ve just been and bought a bag of 47000 assorted used stamps , i`m sorting them into countries now and putting them in albums , i fell so much better now and life is worth living , if only i had known a few decades ago that that's all it took
Collect calendars of Her Majesty's prisons, and you'll feel better than ever!
It doesn’t make your decision invalid, but it can make your rationale invalid if you’re saying “I have to CTB because there’s no other choice, there’s nothing left for me to try” instead of just admitting you don’t want to try.
And that gets to the core of what I'm objecting to - the culture that forces people to justify their suicide by saying that they've tried everything they could, by making it seem so reprehensible. I don't see why you need to try everything you can.
 
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J

Jean Améry

Arcanist
Mar 17, 2019
550
1,718
This post isn't 'pro life' (i.e. anti-suicide, at least not overtly) so imo there's nothing wrong with that. Posting information that might help people in coping with their problems is not in violation of the pro choice stance. I don't think we should be dissuading people from posting what helped them aslong as it doesn't come with trying to impose certain moral views.

The problem I have with this is that there's nothing new here and it's rather condescending to assume people who end up here due to depression haven't tried 'self help' (exercise, social interaction, hobbies, healthy food) and so called 'medical help' (antidepressants). That's pretty much the standard 'treatment' for depression along with psychotherapy.

As to kratom: webmd states insufficient evidence for effectiveness in combating depression. Might work, might not. Before recommending a psychoactive substance you might want to mention possible side-effects including hallucinations and delusions (https://www.webmd.com/vitamins/ai/ingredientmono-1513/kratom). If there aren't good indications it might work (i.e. not purely anecdotal) and it might carry the risk of developing symptoms of psychosis I'd be weary but to each his own.

Using steroids is inviting all sorts of health problems. It might actually worsen any pre-existing mental problem.

As to trying everything one can before CTB: ultimately it's up to each individual. In any case trying 'everything' is impossible as it would include everything one can think of including counting grass, walking the earth untill one's demise, trying to read every book ever written...

There are certain things I will not even entertain trying: this includes ECT (if I incur serious brain damage I might aswell be dead), any more stays at a mental hospital (proven not to work and degrading at that), religious conversion (voluntarily giving up one's intellectual and moral autonomy)...
 
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cornflowerblue

cornflowerblue

-
Feb 19, 2019
563
798
USA
Collect calendars of Her Majesty's prisons, and you'll feel better than ever!

And that gets to the core of what I'm objecting to - the culture that forces people to justify their suicide by saying that they've tried everything they could, by making it seem so reprehensible. I don't see why you need to try everything you can.
Idk if that’s just about suicide, I think that extends to any kind of giving up or walking away from things. People use the same thinking for bad jobs and bad relationships too.
 
GoPeaceful

GoPeaceful

Member
May 14, 2018
28
97
Are you actually so stupid as to believe there is a single person on this forum, who is at least 18 years old and has never tried these methods? Do you really think that?

I get it, being pro-suicide is a taboo in our society. That is the only reason I can think of for you to post something as stupid as this.

Do society’s taboos really decide for you what is right and wrong?

I speak for most if not all members of this forum when I say that I’ve suffered way too much and way too long at the hands of fanatics who believe life is some sort of ‘gift from God’ and that not being happy with it is a ‘sin’.

Get out of here with your pro-life bullshit, trying to mask it up as ‘pro-choice’.
Calm down. He tried to help, if you you are not interested just don’t click on his thread. I have never heard of Kratom before, so at least I have learned that there is more I can try.
 
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S

Sorrowrity

Death Instinct
May 22, 2019
27
40
I'm doing all the natural methods everyday(except for hobby because I don't have one), still want to ctb. life is just...you know.
 
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GoPeaceful

GoPeaceful

Member
May 14, 2018
28
97
Im pro choice. choose what i want it's your body. but what im going to share with you is pro life ways that can help diminish depression and suicide. now I'm not saying it will save all of you of course. that's unrealistic given how the way the world is right now. but ive tried these methods and they work in my life and I've seen it work in others.

Natural methods of life improvement
  • healthy eating
  • social skills
  • excersize
  • hobby/skills you have a passion for
Unnatural methods of life improvement (this is the dark art stuff but believe me ive tested it and it's worth it if it can give you a second chance at life) (yes there are side effects but you can keep them undercontrol of you do it right)
  • Anti depressents
  • Kratom (natural but illegal in some states)
  • Steroids (Dbol specifically)
All these methods have beaten or atleast kept depression at bay for me and other people's lives. Give it a try before ctb'ing. There are methods to help. Unless you've tried all these methods you have not given 100% effort in the fight.

Feel free to ask me any questions regarding this thread. I'm here to help.
Would you mind sharing more details on Kratom and Steroids? How have they helped you? Which effects had they? How high was the dosage you have taken? We’re there any side effects? How long have they helped you? Thank you.
 
Identity

Identity

Hardliner
Feb 17, 2019
20
87
Belgium
Calm down. He tried to help, if you you are not interested just don’t click on his thread. I have never heard of Kratom before, so at least I have learned that there is more I can try.
Help? This is humiliating.
Most of us, at least the ones who’ve, you know, looked into almost every single other possible option other than suicide and found that nothing works for them and only then join forums like these.

The people like you who profit from posts like these, shouldn’t even be on forums like this one. I can understand why someone would say then that this forum is wrong.
Would you mind sharing more details on Kratom and Steroids? How have they helped you? Which effects had they? How high was the dosage you have taken? We’re there any side effects? How long have they helped you? Thank you.
How the heck can you also find a website like this and be depressed enough to at the same time find this website and at the same time have a strong enough will to live that you can’t do your own research on what kratom is? What the hell?
 
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been_there

been_there

Life cares only for itself.
Jun 5, 2019
301
450
yes yes yes x 10000000.
 
GoPeaceful

GoPeaceful

Member
May 14, 2018
28
97
Help? This is humiliating.
Most of us, at least the ones who’ve, you know, looked into almost every single other possible option other than suicide and found that nothing works for them and only then join forums like these.

The people like you who profit from posts like these, shouldn’t even be on forums like this one. I can understand why someone would say then that this forum is wrong.

How the heck can you also find a website like this and be depressed enough to at the same time find this website and at the same time have a strong enough will to live that you can’t do your own research on what kratom is? What the hell?
Ridiculous. Nobody is forced to click on this thread. If you are not interested or you are sure you have tried everything, why have you clicked in the first place?

People like I shouldn’t be on this forum? Who are you to judge my current situation?

Have I written I am depressed? You just assume thinks I haven’t said. He offered us information, OFFERED, nobody needs to accepts his offer.
 
been_there

been_there

Life cares only for itself.
Jun 5, 2019
301
450
Always good to get info here that you could find with google/S
 
RM5998

RM5998

Sack of Meat
Sep 3, 2018
1,552
2,870
Guys, he was just offering information. There are people who may not have even considered some of the options in it.

I personally object to the necessity of trying out every option, but I do acknowledge that it is better to be aware of them to make more educated decisions.
 
been_there

been_there

Life cares only for itself.
Jun 5, 2019
301
450
I know man. I dunno wtf I would do without someone reminding me to replace my children with healthy eating, exercise and a hobby. Please delete my account I'm saved/S
 
RM5998

RM5998

Sack of Meat
Sep 3, 2018
1,552
2,870
I know man. I dunno wtf I would do without someone reminding me to replace my children with healthy eating, exercise and a hobby. Please delete my account I'm saved/S
You're being deliberately obtuse there...
 
been_there

been_there

Life cares only for itself.
Jun 5, 2019
301
450
Not really. I'm just being deliberately me. I know I'm old and intelligent and I'm so very, very sorry about that/S
 
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M

MiCa

Member
Jun 16, 2019
28
16
Im pro choice. choose what i want it's your body. but what im going to share with you is pro life ways that can help diminish depression and suicide. now I'm not saying it will save all of you of course. that's unrealistic given how the way the world is right now. but ive tried these methods and they work in my life and I've seen it work in others.

Natural methods of life improvement
  • healthy eating
  • social skills
  • excersize
  • hobby/skills you have a passion for
Unnatural methods of life improvement (this is the dark art stuff but believe me ive tested it and it's worth it if it can give you a second chance at life) (yes there are side effects but you can keep them undercontrol of you do it right)
  • Anti depressents
  • Kratom (natural but illegal in some states)
  • Steroids (Dbol specifically)
All these methods have beaten or atleast kept depression at bay for me and other people's lives. Give it a try before ctb'ing. There are methods to help. Unless you've tried all these methods you have not given 100% effort in the fight.

Feel free to ask me any questions regarding this thread. I'm here to help.
I welcome your thoughts. But I am on a trip to death because of a terminal condition that pallative care will not be affective for. And yeah I am a bit depressed about it! I want to go on my own terms. And where can you get Kratom from? Thanks
 
J

Jean Améry

Arcanist
Mar 17, 2019
550
1,718
There are people who may not have even considered some of the options in it.
Surely anyone who's ever visited a mainstream site dedicated to depression has read all that was mentioned? Except kratom and steroids: if those were actually effective against depression I'm sure the research would have shown it or there would be research done on it by now.

If one would suggest chemical agents with anti-depressant qualities it'd be ketamine or something of that nature. Of course those also carry certain risks (all drugs do) but they should have a better chance at actually working given that ketamine is used as a medical treatment and research is being done on psychedelics in the context of so called 'treatment resistant depression'.

I don't object to this kind of post but I agree with those here who point out it's rather silly to assume people who are depressed would rather kill themselves than try a number of routes to get 'better'. Especially when they're rather obvious to put it mildly.
 
RM5998

RM5998

Sack of Meat
Sep 3, 2018
1,552
2,870
I don't object to this kind of post but I agree with those here who point out it's rather silly to assume people who are depressed would rather kill themselves than try a number of routes to get 'better'.
It's that assumption that I object to... I could perform a rational assessment of all available options and conclude that getting better and staying alive for an extended period of time would be worse for me. I don't think that suicide needs to be a 'last resort' option.
 
not_a_robot

not_a_robot

"i hope the leaving is joyful, & never to return"
May 30, 2019
2,012
5,336
Ridiculous. Nobody is forced to click on this thread. If you are not interested or you are sure you have tried everything, why have you clicked in the first place?

People like I shouldn’t be on this forum? Who are you to judge my current situation?

Have I written I am depressed? You just assume thinks I haven’t said. He offered us information, OFFERED, nobody needs to accepts his offer.
omg another one.
 
J

Jean Améry

Arcanist
Mar 17, 2019
550
1,718
It's that assumption that I object to... I could perform a rational assessment of all available options and conclude that getting better and staying alive for an extended period of time would be worse for me. I don't think that suicide needs to be a 'last resort' option.
Theoretically it's better to be dead than to be alive. My reply was limited to the list that was suggested. Given that unassisted suicide usually is a pretty grim business (especially with a society that tries very hard to make it as difficult as possible) it stands to reason most people would opt for a less drastic option. Ipso facto it's probable they already tried the very common options of psychiatric treatment, therapy, exercise, healthy living...

For me personally suicide is sort of a last resort (within reason) seeing that I can't bring myself to cause grief to the few people in this world whom I love (3 of those being small children, luckily not my own) unless I can honestly say I did anything that I considered reasonable to make life worthwhile. After that game over.

I would never presume to tell anyone who is suicidal what they should or should not do. I'm in no position to judge really.
 
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RM5998

RM5998

Sack of Meat
Sep 3, 2018
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2,870
Theoretically it's better to be dead than to be alive. My reply was limited to the list that was suggested. Given that unassisted suicide usually is a pretty grim business (especially with a society that tries very hard to make it as difficult as possible) it stands to reason most people would opt for a less drastic option. Ipso facto it's probable they already tried the very common options of psychiatric treatment, therapy, exercise, healthy living...

For me personally suicide is sort of a last resort (within reason) seeing that I can't bring myself to cause grief to the few people in this world whom I love (3 of those being small children, luckily not my own) unless I can honestly say I did anything that I considered reasonable to make life worthwhile. After that game over.

I would never presume to tell anyone who is suicidal what they should or should not do. I'm in no position to judge really.
To me, making suicide into a last resort forces people to try to justify their decisions from an objective standpoint, one that the survivors can understand and accept. The narrative thus shifts to 'I tried everything and nothing worked', which to me is counterproductive. The person committing suicide needs to prove that they are making the only possible choice, because suicide can never be the right choice when there are other options available. That thought process, to me, is incorrect.

While I haven't tried everything to get better, I have assessed all my options and concluded that it's better for me to CTB, preferably before I turn 25 and certainly before 35. The act of trying everything costs time, time which I don't want to spend feeling like a piece of shit waiting for my body to start failing.
 
J

Jean Améry

Arcanist
Mar 17, 2019
550
1,718
To me, making suicide into a last resort forces people to try to justify their decisions from an objective standpoint, one that the survivors can understand and accept. The narrative thus shifts to 'I tried everything and nothing worked', which to me is counterproductive. The person committing suicide needs to prove that they are making the only possible choice, because suicide can never be the right choice when there are other options available. That thought process, to me, is incorrect.
I never claimed people should do anything in this matter, I merely stated my own decision. In such matters (axiology) it's impossible to determine what is correct or incorrect. It's nothing but a point of view.

There is no objective standpoint here: given that in theory there are endless possibilities it's merely a matter of when it could be considered reasonable to call it quits. Whatever that is is impossible to determine objectively therefore any individual should decide it for him/herself.

Aslong as one has the means, the will and the opportunity one doesn't need to prove anything. That's only the case in euthanasia when certain criteria need to be fulfilled.
 
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RM5998

RM5998

Sack of Meat
Sep 3, 2018
1,552
2,870
I never claimed people should do anything in this matter, I merely stated my own decision. In such matters (axiology) it's impossible to determine what is correct or incorrect. It's nothing but a point of view.

There is no objective standpoint here: given that in theory there are endless possibilities it's merely a matter of when it could be considered reasonable to call it quits. Whatever that is is impossible to determine objectively therefore any individual should decide it for him/herself.

Aslong as one has the means, the will and the opportunity one doesn't need to prove anything. That's only the case in euthanasia when certain criteria need to be fulfilled.
Sorry, I misread your intentions there...

I always try discuss the rationale behind suicide in a general, abstract way, because I believe that it is possible to form a universal framework through which we can think of suicide, which can explain all individual cases in a somewhat similar fashion. It's the only way I can explain it to the people in my life who I want to tell something about what I'm going to do. It's a hard habit to get rid of.
 
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bigj75

bigj75

“From Knowledge springs power."
Sep 1, 2018
2,337
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Earth
Worth a shot i agree, dont take the anger of people personally theyre usually just frustrated that they already tried and it hasnt worked.
That's what im saying. i understand its not going to work for everyone nomatter what they try. i feel for them and understand them. this is just stuff that might work for some people.
 
Identity

Identity

Hardliner
Feb 17, 2019
20
87
Belgium
Ridiculous. Nobody is forced to click on this thread. If you are not interested or you are sure you have tried everything, why have you clicked in the first place?

People like I shouldn’t be on this forum? Who are you to judge my current situation?

Have I written I am depressed? You just assume thinks I haven’t said. He offered us information, OFFERED, nobody needs to accepts his offer.

I don’t know if you’ve noticed, but this forum is being watched by the authorities (most likely) after a member of this forum committed suicide and her family blamed the forum for her suicide.

So with members such as yourself, who accept the preaching of ‘there are ways to cure your depression’ this forum is gonna start to look like it’s filled with people who haven’t even decided whether suicide is their only option left anymore.

That is the sort of people that will lead to this forum being labelled as ‘encouraging suicide’ to people who still have a ‘chance’ at living.

This forum is the only and final blessing that people who have accepted death as their fate.

Don’t take it away from us. This is the only thing that I can still spend my time on for my last few months on here. Go to reddit.com/r/suicidewatch or r/mentalhealth if you’re still able to recover. They can help you out a lot more.

But please don’t be arrogant and selfish and aid in the destruction of this forum just because you don’t have the heart to care for the many people like me who have nowhete else to go than here.


Edit: also lmao about the ‘offer’ part. If I ‘offer’ someone to consider suicide as a better option that endless ‘therapy’ on any other forum or subreddit other than this one, I’ll get banned instantly. Talks about pro-choice is strictly forbidden on them.

So nah, screw you and your offer.
 
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