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A woman who temporarily died believes she saw hell and was tortured

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WitheringAway

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Personally I think it was hallucinations and thinking about hell was something that was always embedded in her subconscious. This near death experience was just a trigger to release what she really believed would happen to her after death. I’m glad she was revived though. Imagine living through that for eternity. Some people believe the whole story is just a form of evangelism. What do you guys think?
 
DazaiCTB

DazaiCTB

This life ain't worth living
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I think I agree with it being a hallicination/psychological response of some sort. Of course it's difficult to know for sure, but I want to give her the benefit of the doubt that she actually experienced this as opposed to making it up as a form of evangelism. However, I can't get behind the idea of it being anything other than psychological.
 
Dr Iron Arc

Dr Iron Arc

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Personally I think it was hallucinations and thinking about hell was something that was always embedded in her subconscious. This near death experience was just a trigger to release what she really believed would happen to her after death. I’m glad she was revived though. Imagine living through that for eternity. Some people believe the whole story is just a form of evangelism. What do you guys think?
I truly believe there has to at least be some form of hell because it doesn’t sit right with me that some of the people who have committed the most selfish and heinous acts in the world were absolved merely by dying. Maybe that really does only manifest itself as some bad people seeing in their mind that right before they die, they see hell because deep down they know they’re guilty. Unfortunately this would mean people who don’t believe they did anything wrong would probably still have a happy ending. It would be pretty upsetting knowing that those mass shooters who killed themselves after their spree got to immediately enter a peaceful realm or that people who have been given the death penalty were actually given the lightest possible sentence. That said, I hope hell isn't actually eternal because I’m probably headed there...
 
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WitheringAway

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I think I agree with it being a hallicination/psychological response of some sort. Of course it's difficult to know for sure, but I want to give her the benefit of the doubt that she actually experienced this as opposed to making it up as a form of evangelism. However, I can't get behind the idea of it being anything other than psychological.
Yeah the whole evangelical theory doesn’t resonate with me since apparently she had this experience as a result of an overdose. That’s a bit too extreme of a length to go to for evangelism.
 
greekyfish10

greekyfish10

i’m kinda screwed in the head but aren’t we all
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i don’t know honestly. i kinda believe this story because i was raised in a christian household and my parents believed in a heaven and a hell and that’s what i was taught. but the odds of it being a hallucination are very high. many of the so called “out of body experiences” that people have claimed to have are most likely just hallucinations. but seriously, who knows what’s true or not?
 
dec132013

dec132013

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I'm not smart enough to explain it myself, but the NDE subreddit/NDE site has tons of stories that can somewhat line up. If this topic interests you check it out. I find them easier to believe since they're typically anonymous and have nothing to gain from making shit up compared to those who try to sell their story.
 
Dr Iron Arc

Dr Iron Arc

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I posted this in the afterlife thread but it’s relevant here too. It IS odd how many people who have had near death experiences from different cultures and even children who have not heard about any other near death experiences all felt something similar. That said, it doesn’t disprove that it’s not just something the brain conjures up for everyone when they die so maybe that’s it. If I’m always going to see something terrible though I’d like to prevent that.
 
W

WitheringAway

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I'm not smart enough to explain it myself, but the NDE subreddit/NDE site has tons of stories that can somewhat line up. If this topic interests you check it out. I find them easier to believe since they're typically anonymous and have nothing to gain from making shit up compared to those who try to sell their story.
Personally I find it harder to believe anonymous accounts of events since they could be written by anyone to promote whatever agenda they may have. The one I mentioned has some sort of credibility since it was proven clinically that the woman indeed died for a while.
 
W

worried_to_death

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I like the fact that the article ends with: "Some researchers state these are normal phenomena and not necessarily a sign of Heaven, Hell or an afterlife."
Well, thanks for clearing that up.
However, I can't get behind the idea of it being anything other than psychological
but it is strange that these kinds of accounts always contain such phrases as : 'x happened for what seemed like an eternity'.

I'd be interested to know what is meant exactly by something 'seeming like an eternity'. Does it mean that they experience these nde's in terms of thousands of lifetimes? I mean, the normal lifespan of a human seems subjectively long enough, so imagine having to live through a nearly-eternal nde. No thanks.
 
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yep

yep

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Well hallucinations are common before death or in lots of panic before passing out. The out of body experience before you die was proven wrong, people saw their surroundings before passing out and hallucinated what they saw and themselves. So this could be like that. I think death is still a mystery until we get there although I like to think that it’s like forever sleeping.
 
After The End

After The End

The lily whispers, “I wait.”
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Stories like this have been doing the rounds since I was a kid. Woman/man dies and sees insert afterlife.

There is a philosophical concept of a 'natural afterlife,' which lines up with what we know about death, but it's all about tricks of perception and your consciousness being unable to process its own cessation.

It's like Zeno's arrow paradox in that the 'eternal,' aspect is a trick of external perception and logic.

You can argue logically about why the arrow can't or doesn't move. Just as you can argue that we cannot perceive our own transition into the state of nonexistence. However just as the arrow moves in reality so to do we make that transition.
 
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worried_to_death

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There definitely must be a strong time dilation element involved, modulated by neurochemistry.
It's a pertinent analogy, with zeno's arrow paradox.

Maybe the experience of transitioning to nonexistence can be understood with the concept of a convergent series of an infinite sequence of numbers with a limit.

The brain will create all sorts of subjective hallucinations to cope with eternal nonexistence, which seem completely real and to last for an eternity/infinity, but which have an actual limit in the same way that you can sum an infinite geometric series, which in external measurable 'physics' time is overcome in a fraction of a second, but in subjective consciousness-flow time will have this eternal quality to it, since it's impossible to experience the other side of the limit.

So maybe a kind of eternal life exists after all.

“Death is not an event in life: we do not live to experience death. If we take eternity to mean not infinite temporal duration but timelessness, then eternal life belongs to those who live in the present. Our life has no end in the way in which our visual field has no limits.” wittgenstein
 
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Meditation guide

Meditation guide

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What do you guys think?
I think this is exactly what happens, the entire thing. Not everyone experiences the demons but they do get ahold of some. It does sound like she is trying to convert people and yet, it's probably true based on some experiences I've had. The demon part might have to do with what religion she was raised in.
 
Xocoyotziin

Xocoyotziin

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@worried_to_death
Wouldn't each frame of events in subjective time have to progressively decrease in complexity as the brain that's generating it decays in real time, because the subjective time experience has a realtime correlate, the processes of the brain? That's what you're viewing but from a different lens, and if those systems are decaying so too must the perception of them. This could still cause an infinite "downgrading" or "zooming in" of experience that never results in true cessation of experience as your brain squeezes every last drop of itself, or even ending in one motionless perception like being caught in the middle of a thought. But otherwise I find it hard to believe that you could encapsulate a true eternity in the moments before death where the resources just aren't there to spend on generating one.

Or a scarier thought is that when it's about to reach the precipice of nonexistence the hallucinated experience creates its own hallucinatory subset, also decreasing in complexity as it descends. Like inception lmao. Scary because that means this life could be the death throes of another being and theirs another, and so on and so forth, all to preserve consciousness from having to face the real unknown. It could also explain why the universe is energetically finite, even though intuitively there's no reason for that, if it's just a capsule in another environment that then has its own capsules with capsules. I'm rambling but this would make a kind of metaphorical suicide the only true way to die, because the mind itself would have to choose to face nonexistence instead of scurrying to smaller and smaller realities as it decays to perpetuate the illusion that it isn't decaying.

Or maybe complexity is the wrong word. Each hallucinatory moment would be less energetic than the last, and to compensate for that the scope of perception would have to narrow in order for it still appear lifelike.
 
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worried_to_death

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Wouldn't each frame of events in subjective time have to progressively decrease in complexity as the brain that's generating it decays in real time, because the subjective time experience has a realtime correlate, the processes of the brain?
yes, and eventually the subjective events would reach a point of zero or near-zero complexity, i.e. unity, in which the self and the experience become one and the same, which is equivalent to some kind of mystical union with the divine. This state could theoretically last forever, since there is no actual way to distinguish it from non-existence. The transition would be complete.
And it is interesting that when you read about NDE accounts, many of them do move from the complex to the simple, as eventually the subject reports coming in to contact with 'God', the fount of all being, etc.
i.e. https://www.express.co.uk/news/weir...h-what-happens-when-you-die-jesus-visions-nde

"We are all equal in spirit form. She then said that I was still veiled and made a gesture that must have taken off the veil because I immediately went to a place I now call the sea of light.
"As I stretched out my arms I felt as though my body exploded and I was no longer in bodily form.
"I could not see any separation. I had no beginning or end.
"I was truly one with all of creation and I could only see myself as a purple and gold light amongst all the others"

anyway, nice post, I like the stuff about inception too.
So maybe suicide is the only real way to 'die' without all that subjective time dilation/having experiences which seem like an eternity, since in this case the mind really wants to end. But you never know what's going on at the subconscious level. We never really know ourselves or our true motivations.
 
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M

Mischievous

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I am a huge lover of the social sciences but I honestly think neuroscience is our best bet at a reasonable answer. I think the issue is that our brains function in a particular and predictable way throughout our life. The only times when they dont is when a illness/damage occurs, drugs are introduced, or even extreme situations that drive our brains to adapt by utilizing what it has at hand (neurotransmitters, limiting or creating more receptors, and using specific areas for cognition). I think the first question we need to ask is whether our brains even have the capacity to create experiences described by a subset of a population that experienced near death (heaven, hell, 3'd person, etc).

Yes! Take for example psilocybin, LSD, or heck even weed. Some of the "trips" that are described by these users match exactly some of the experiences that are in this article like out of body experiences, seeing scary or beautiful creatures, being ripped to pieces then reassembled, being whisked away to new environments in an instant, time perception changes, judgement, being born and reborn multiple times, seeing your life in a timeline... Im not trying to say that this woman or anyone who has these experiences were high but that with a minor alteration to the brain that these things are well within the capability of our brain to manifest itself to our consciousness. We have learned a lot of the brain over the past century but are still very limited in our understanding of how it works cohesively together. It is highly complex there are a lot of variability in functioning from person to person.

I guess what I am trying to get at is that it isnt beyond the realm that these experiences are actually just unusual but very natural phenomenon.
 
Xocoyotziin

Xocoyotziin

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@Mischievous
Don't forget dreaming too, you don't even need drugs for that. Sometimes you don't even need to be asleep. Elaborate, lifelike hallucinations that are surreal as fuck but we all accept it as normal because everyone sleeps. Really it's pretty damn strange but a matter of course for a human, and also not traditionally supernatural in the slightest.

So maybe suicide is the only real way to die, since in this case the mind really wants to end. But you never know what's going on at the subconscious level. We never really know ourselves or our true motivations.
True, and I think that if the mind as a whole reached a full internal conensus that it wants to die it would make it happen. And if reality is a series of hallucinatory containers set inside themselves or a stretch of experience being divided, conserved and analyzed physical death might be obsolete because all of the rules are made up anyway and what's required is the "intentionality" of the whole system.

Hopefully this is all just thought and that wall of nonexistence really is waiting around the corner for us to slam into lol.
 
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After The End

After The End

The lily whispers, “I wait.”
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It's a pertinent analogy, with zeno's arrow paradox.
Diogenes the Cynic famously refuted said paradox by getting up and walking away...

.. and people on SS are not-infrequently making comparable gestures with respect to the concept of eternal or unending NDEs.
 
BipolarGuy

BipolarGuy

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Personally I think it was hallucinations and thinking about hell was something that was always embedded in her subconscious. This near death experience was just a trigger to release what she really believed would happen to her after death. I’m glad she was revived though. Imagine living through that for eternity. Some people believe the whole story is just a form of evangelism. What do you guys think?
I cannot know for sure, but if accounts on YouTube are anything to go by then almost all encounters with Jesus during a near death experience are experienced by devout Christians who then talk about their experience on an evangelical YouTube channel.
Coincidence?
 
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TooConscious

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I truly believe there has to at least be some form of hell because it doesn’t sit right with me that some of the people who have committed the most selfish and heinous acts in the world were absolved merely by dying. Maybe that really does only manifest itself as some bad people seeing in their mind that right before they die, they see hell because deep down they know they’re guilty. Unfortunately this would mean people who don’t believe they did anything wrong would probably still have a happy ending. It would be pretty upsetting knowing that those mass shooters who killed themselves after their spree got to immediately enter a peaceful realm or that people who have been given the death penalty were actually given the lightest possible sentence. That said, I hope hell isn't actually eternal because I’m probably headed there...
It's a choice.... Life is hell this is a game so ask yourself why the elite cause so much suffering to others. You steal their energy and use that energy to escape existince. It's truly beyond wicked a complete trap. That's why you never see 'evil' with health issues suffering, its only ever kind people who suffer. For example there's very few evil people here and we're all the ones suffering to the point of wanting to end it but unfortunately we're likely trapped and just re exist again to the same loop.
 
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netrezven

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When I was like no pulse and breathing it was complete empty, nothing, the world just stopped to exist with it’s time too. I don’t find it scary. However there is one specific thing that it kind of very well proves hell’s existence. And I’m going there because of me. Part of me is actually already in hell, switching on and off some times. I wonder how things go for people with DID/OSDD - if one deserves it, where do the others that are innocent go?
Why hell should be scary - it’s supposed to be a way for real justice, something that people are not capable of. And maybe is more real than this world here.
 
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Dr Iron Arc

Dr Iron Arc

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It's a choice.... Life is hell this is a game so ask yourself why the elite cause so much suffering to others. You steal their energy and use that energy to escape existince. It's truly beyond wicked a complete trap. That's why you never see 'evil' with health issues suffering, its only ever kind people who suffer. For example there's very few evil people here and we're all the ones suffering to the point of wanting to end it but unfortunately we're likely trapped and just re exist again to the same loop.
I think the reason we don’t see evil people suffering is because we choose not to in order to save ourselves from the cognitive dissonance from realizing that even people who have committed terrible acts still suffer in their own ways and that in fact some of them are evil because of the various ways they have suffered.

But maybe I’m just one of them and belong in hell too. :tongue:

I think if this is hell, then it could be worse I suppose. I’m most scared of the typical Christian hell with like demons and fire and stuff.
 
StateOfMind

StateOfMind

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I call BS. I'm surprised there is much debating going on about whether hell exists or not. Jesus fucking christ guys lol
 
Mr2005

Mr2005

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On the flipside here's this I wanted to post it somewhere
 
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