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A letter to pro-lifers

Life_and_Death

Life_and_Death

"So if you love me let me go" -snuff
Joined
Jul 1, 2020
Messages
1,234
I think if you understand depression and the other reasons for why people ctb you would realize that it's not possible to stop people from it by correcting the problems in society. It's very diverse and complicated and different for everyone.
Not gonna disagree but it would fix a lot of problems and at the very least prevent a whole lot more from being caused in the beginning. I mean from what I can tell most of us are here because family friends or peers weren't exactly the nicest of people (if I'm going to be nice about it)
 
Meditation guide

Meditation guide

Illuminated
Joined
Jun 22, 2020
Messages
1,361
If I'm honest even I don't know enough about mental health to be able to say if it can be cured or reversed, especially things like psychosis or schizophrenia.
If those could be cured why do people have them? There are some drugs but those are far from perfect.
I mean from what I can tell most of us are here because family friends or peers weren't exactly the nicest of people (if I'm going to be nice about it)
Then maybe we should talk about all the various reasons people do it. I'm here strictly due to physical problems for example. Maybe for most younger people than me it's due to relationship or family problems. For some it's due to a loved one dying which relates to depression. For someone I knew it was a lifelong battle with horrible depression. The list goes on and on. One person here was about to be sentenced to a long jail sentence. Others have talked about being homeless.
 
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worried_to_death

Illuminated
Joined
Jul 14, 2020
Messages
1,306
Some say it's unnatural,
Who gets to define what's 'natural' or 'unnatural'?

And anyway, 'natural' isn't synonymous with 'good' or 'desirable'.
There are lots of natural things which are brutal, cruel and undesirable.
Heck, religion is built upon subverting and crushing people's natural desires and impulses.
 
I

inflammed123

Veteran
Joined
Sep 9, 2020
Messages
118
You can google “fixthe26” and you will find a website that is trying to take legal action against SS and want to shut down this website. I think it’s unfair because there’s no another forum where you can freely discuss suicide methods without consequences. If FBI forces this website to shut down, they are violating the First Amendment. I know pro-lifers are going to read this thread. If you are pro-lifers that read this thread, SS is meant to freely express suicidal thoughts, feelings, suicide plans, and stuff without censorship. You keep saying that this website is a pro-suicide forum. This isn’t true. There’s a big difference between encouragement and education. For example, one of the most famous suicide cases is that a 17 year old girl repeatedly told and pressured her 18 year old boyfriend to kill himself, even though he wasn’t 100% sure if he wanted to die. This is the definition of encouragement. SS members don’t encourage others to kill themselves, they just provide educational instructions on how to kill themselves correctly. It’s totally up to members to decide when to ctb and which ctb method they want. No one forces them to ctb or stay alive. It’s their choice their life. One thing I want to say about website is that they don’t allow minors to make SS accounts. I know that doesn’t stop them from viewing this website. But the point is that nearly everyone, especially adults, should have the right to die. They didn’t ask to be born. You have no right to force suicidal people to stay alive. You’re gonna say, “Oh suicide is selfish.” I disagree with this statement because suicidal people already are in a lot of pain and they are already very brave enough to stay alive. Some people keep having suicidal thoughts for 30-40 years and are still alive. They are very brave to do that. If they decide to ctb, you should let them to die. Wouldn’t you want to see your loved ones suffering? Depression is not a temporary illness. It’s much complicated than you think. Many people, like me, are treatment-resistant depression. It means that meds for depression don’t work, therapy doesn’t work, etc. you should compare treatment-resistant depression to some terminal illness like Alzheimer’s.
it's bullshit that people wish and try to force their beliefs and way of living on others. fuck them.
 
BipolarGuy

BipolarGuy

Enlightened
Joined
Aug 7, 2020
Messages
855
I think if you understand depression and the other reasons for why people ctb you would realize that it's not possible to stop people from it by correcting the problems in society. It's very diverse and complicated and different for everyone.
I believe that most people would take what you have said here as being untrue.

Granted, it would take some miracle for society to change and have priorities in order, but in the event that it did I'm sure this would help.
I don't believe it's impossible, I believe that the people in a position to change things simply don't have the will.

I've experienced being severely depressed for no identifiable reason. So I get it.
I've also experienced being depressed due to some very practical real life reasons.
I think if you understand depression and the other reasons for why people ctb you would realize that it's not possible to stop people from it by correcting the problems in society. It's very diverse and complicated and different for everyone. It's best to be realistic and realize this is not going to end. People need to be able to ctb. They want to be able to ctb. They go to any extreme to ctb. It's so horrible what people do and go through to end their lives. It could be so easy and peaceful.
You've changed your post again after I've replied and quoted it.

I believe that people shouldn't have to jump off of buildings to bring suffering to an end.

But as I have said before, I would rather my life turn around and be able to enjoy it rather than bring it to an end.
As I keep saying, the cart is put before the horse on the issue of mental health and suicide prevention - the issues are not dealt with.
Not gonna disagree but it would fix a lot of problems and at the very least prevent a whole lot more from being caused in the beginning. I mean from what I can tell most of us are here because family friends or peers weren't exactly the nicest of people (if I'm going to be nice about it)
Of course this is true :)

If some of the reasons why people feel depressed and try to end their lives were dealt with, then less of it would happen.
 
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B

bov

Veteran
Joined
Aug 26, 2020
Messages
112
Can anyone on this thread recommend sites even remotely similar to this? I’m trying to learn more but all I know of is the Final Exit Network.
 
lostangel

lostangel

Visionary
Joined
Mar 22, 2019
Messages
963
It makes me sick any time I realize someone underage has slipped in. It's like buying a drink for a minor who gets into a bar with a fake ID, but so much worse. It makes my soul sick. I know kids are going to try to sneak into adult places, but this is serious shit. The site is already available online for anyone to view, so maybe they feel alone and need to communicate with others, but then it just feels profane to me, to be tricked into providing emotional support for a kid when this is supposed to be an adult space. I can't own their shit and my shit in an adult space. It's already heavy enough.
Hello, could you elaborate on why it's so bad to provide emotional support to a kid? Even if they're anonymous on this site. What would be so different compared to an adult?

Is it more than just ''this is supposed to be an adult space'' or is it just that. Thank you.
 
I

inflammed123

Veteran
Joined
Sep 9, 2020
Messages
118
Facial
We can black out our names and everything except date of birth and ID photo
Governments wouldn't openly admit to using facial recognition software, but it does exist, and sooner or later they will be using it if they aren't already using it.
 
GoodPersonEffed

GoodPersonEffed

Brevity is my middle name, but my name was TL
Joined
Jan 11, 2020
Messages
5,769
Hello, could you elaborate on why it's so bad to provide emotional support to a kid? Even if they're anonymous on this site. What would be so different compared to an adult?

Is it more than just ''this is supposed to be an adult space'' or is it just that. Thank you.

I used to volunteer with teens. I freaking love them, I respect them, I get their challenges, and I am protective of them, as they are often vulnerable and misunderstood. But it's a different headspace to be in. This is a place for dealing with adults and adult issues, peer to peer, and that's the headspace I want to be in. I have a sense of responsibility when supporting an underage youth, and I don't want that here. If I make a mistake, or if I don't speak gently enough, the impacts are far greater. And it sickens me that I could be providing motivation for a child or teenager under 18 to kill themselves.

I used to hang out at an expat bar in Latin America. The owner would let certain kids, including a teenage girl, come in and hang out. It was a very adult environment, with alcoholics, sometimes drugs, and harsh mannerisms. I used to argue with the owner because of what the kids were exposed to, and if he loved them so much, I thought he either needed to change it to a family environment or not allow minors. Whenever they were there, I was watching out for them, and watching my own behaviors, instead of relaxing and enjoying myself.
 
Sinkinshyp

Sinkinshyp

Master
Joined
Sep 7, 2020
Messages
419
Having had to many experiences in my life I have felt probably every emotion there is. I've had periods of being very low - trying to CTB as a teenager, my current state- and being on top of the world- raising my sons. I have been through many struggles. I was a suicidal teenager here I am 30 years later more devastated than I ever imagined possible. I can relate on many levels to many people. Some of the things I thought were horrible in my life ended up teaching me lessons not all bad. It helped me be more compassionate than others who only care about themselves or being happy causing others pain. I hope I can express how I feel in regards to this without sounding pro life or making anyone feel that I dismiss them due to being young. I feel that everyone has a right to choose to stay or go. I also feel that some things can get better. Especially if it's in relation to teenage hormones contributing to a depressed state. I would never want to be a teenager again. Some of my ctb attempts were at that time of the month as a teenager. The hormonal changes caused me to become unstable. I'm sure there are underage people reading. I HOPE they don't CTB and can talk to someone and get help. Things can and do get better. If they are in an abusive home- talk to a teacher to get help to get out of the environment. I would have no issue providing my ID here. This is a safe space from what I see so far. I have read this thread and have been trying to find the right words to contribute.

As for the pro lifers: While this forum does have easily accessible content I see it as more than that. I see so many supporting others- not just about CTB but most importantly being there for them as a friend a person someone who feels the same way. If we tell people our desire they look at us like we have 3 eyes and want to lock us up in a crappy mental hospital. I honestly wish there was a crappy mental hospital I could try to get help. They don't take my insurance so I do not have that option to even try. Most people cannot imagine the struggle to wake up every day and live through such pain. They have never experienced child abuse, bullying, heart break- from relationships and friends family who are unable to comprehend what we are struggling with. Having a place where you can speak honestly and having others who understand is actually so far being helpful- not to ctb but in other ways. I see so many here who are caring individuals even though they feel like they want to CTB. They still have understanding and compassion towards others despite feeling life has nothing further to offer them and they have been pushed to this point by others. Here is a place we fit in where we don't with the rest of the world. There is a recovery section for those who want to recover. So much support there for them.

I'm back to wanting to CTB because my 25 yr old son died in a car accident on his way to work almost 3 yrs ago. That was about the last straw in my miserable existence. I have always had depression and anxiety to some level due to the hell I was born into and being dealt a real shitty deck of cards in my life. As a parent who can no longer tell my son I love you to hear I love you to Ma.. I can relate to parents. If my son chose to take his life and found out how on a forum I honestly don't know how I would react or think. I must be honest in all aspects. I would have to look at how life failed him and why. I would probably put a lot of blame on myself.

Some people who are depressed have a chemical imbalance. That can be treated with meds- might have to go through 20 to find that 1 that helps. Some meds just destroy people further and are more detrimental to them. I was quite medicated as a teenager. One anxiety med in particular back than was a 3 sheet script because it was controlled. It would make you feel like you drank a 12 pack- I liked alcohol and this was a cheap way to get buzzed up. If I took all my meds every day I don't know what I would be like. I'm over medicated now. I do take my duloxetine, xanax and seroquel as prescribed on top of many other meds for my health and pain. The trazadone, rozerem and amitriptyline I take as needed. I'd probably be a zombie if I took it all. They call docs medical practitioner because they are all practicing medicine. Some of those practicing medicine in the mental health field should not be in that field. They are causing more harm than good. I know as a teenager I went through many psychiatrists, counselors and psychotherapists until I found a good one. When you are so depressed you are ready to leave this world it's a chore to just brush your hair let alone seek out a doctor. Than to go through a few docs because you need to find one that you feel comfortable talking to.

Some people have been born into a great life and never had negative experiences. They can't begin to know what it feels like to be so depressed. I told my mother and brother- If I could let you feel my pain for 5 minutes you would understand. You would see how painful waking up is. You would accept my choice to leave all this pain and go to my son. You would know it's selfish to want me to remain in this existence.
 
thrw_a_way1221221

thrw_a_way1221221

Angel of Choice - on borrowed time.
Joined
Aug 30, 2018
Messages
5,171
Well said @Deafsn0w and I fully agree with you. I believe that the moderators and staff of this platform will do what they can to avoid being shutdown by the government. Also, yes by shutting down certain websites, such as these, they are indeed violating the 1st amendment. I will say that having a method has actually helped me cope a bit better with life, knowing that I can exit on my own terms and at my time of choosing rather than being forced to live a life that is miserable and one that I have no choice to be in. From 2019 to present day, I've been alive mainly due to having a means of (reliable) exit. While this means that I may one day CTB, I am living proof that for some people, having a way out (legitimately) as well as a platform to be honest without fear of judgment, censorship, or intervention has done wonders.
 
Teal_Blue_Dreams

Teal_Blue_Dreams

Member
Joined
Sep 15, 2020
Messages
26
Having had to many experiences in my life I have felt probably every emotion there is. I've had periods of being very low - trying to CTB as a teenager, my current state- and being on top of the world- raising my sons. I have been through many struggles. I was a suicidal teenager here I am 30 years later more devastated than I ever imagined possible. I can relate on many levels to many people. Some of the things I thought were horrible in my life ended up teaching me lessons not all bad. It helped me be more compassionate than others who only care about themselves or being happy causing others pain. I hope I can express how I feel in regards to this without sounding pro life or making anyone feel that I dismiss them due to being young. I feel that everyone has a right to choose to stay or go. I also feel that some things can get better. Especially if it's in relation to teenage hormones contributing to a depressed state. I would never want to be a teenager again. Some of my ctb attempts were at that time of the month as a teenager. The hormonal changes caused me to become unstable. I'm sure there are underage people reading. I HOPE they don't CTB and can talk to someone and get help. Things can and do get better. If they are in an abusive home- talk to a teacher to get help to get out of the environment. I would have no issue providing my ID here. This is a safe space from what I see so far. I have read this thread and have been trying to find the right words to contribute.

As for the pro lifers: While this forum does have easily accessible content I see it as more than that. I see so many supporting others- not just about CTB but most importantly being there for them as a friend a person someone who feels the same way. If we tell people our desire they look at us like we have 3 eyes and want to lock us up in a crappy mental hospital. I honestly wish there was a crappy mental hospital I could try to get help. They don't take my insurance so I do not have that option to even try. Most people cannot imagine the struggle to wake up every day and live through such pain. They have never experienced child abuse, bullying, heart break- from relationships and friends family who are unable to comprehend what we are struggling with. Having a place where you can speak honestly and having others who understand is actually so far being helpful- not to ctb but in other ways. I see so many here who are caring individuals even though they feel like they want to CTB. They still have understanding and compassion towards others despite feeling life has nothing further to offer them and they have been pushed to this point by others. Here is a place we fit in where we don't with the rest of the world. There is a recovery section for those who want to recover. So much support there for them.

I'm back to wanting to CTB because my 25 yr old son died in a car accident on his way to work almost 3 yrs ago. That was about the last straw in my miserable existence. I have always had depression and anxiety to some level due to the hell I was born into and being dealt a real shitty deck of cards in my life. As a parent who can no longer tell my son I love you to hear I love you to Ma.. I can relate to parents. If my son chose to take his life and found out how on a forum I honestly don't know how I would react or think. I must be honest in all aspects. I would have to look at how life failed him and why. I would probably put a lot of blame on myself.

Some people who are depressed have a chemical imbalance. That can be treated with meds- might have to go through 20 to find that 1 that helps. Some meds just destroy people further and are more detrimental to them. I was quite medicated as a teenager. One anxiety med in particular back than was a 3 sheet script because it was controlled. It would make you feel like you drank a 12 pack- I liked alcohol and this was a cheap way to get buzzed up. If I took all my meds every day I don't know what I would be like. I'm over medicated now. I do take my duloxetine, xanax and seroquel as prescribed on top of many other meds for my health and pain. The trazadone, rozerem and amitriptyline I take as needed. I'd probably be a zombie if I took it all. They call docs medical practitioner because they are all practicing medicine. Some of those practicing medicine in the mental health field should not be in that field. They are causing more harm than good. I know as a teenager I went through many psychiatrists, counselors and psychotherapists until I found a good one. When you are so depressed you are ready to leave this world it's a chore to just brush your hair let alone seek out a doctor. Than to go through a few docs because you need to find one that you feel comfortable talking to.

Some people have been born into a great life and never had negative experiences. They can't begin to know what it feels like to be so depressed. I told my mother and brother- If I could let you feel my pain for 5 minutes you would understand. You would see how painful waking up is. You would accept my choice to leave all this pain and go to my son. You would know it's selfish to want me to remain in this existence.
This is my first comment as a newbie. I wanted to say that I am so very touched by your thoughtful and thorough post. I am so sorry that you lost your son. "I'm sorry" is such a failure of words when it comes to death. Especially of a child. Especially of anyone so young. Although I cannot relate to that specifically, I can relate to the intense pain, depression, anxiety, all of the doctors, the endless meds (20 to find that 1 that helps) and everything else that you wrote about. The suicidal PMS - yep, I know all about it. I would love to make friends here and have someone to support and to talk to. Want to be friends? (Virtual hug)
 
Sinkinshyp

Sinkinshyp

Master
Joined
Sep 7, 2020
Messages
419
This is my first comment as a newbie. I wanted to say that I am so very touched by your thoughtful and thorough post. I am so sorry that you lost your son. "I'm sorry" is such a failure of words when it comes to death. Especially of a child. Especially of anyone so young. Although I cannot relate to that specifically, I can relate to the intense pain, depression, anxiety, all of the doctors, the endless meds (20 to find that 1 that helps) and everything else that you wrote about. The suicidal PMS - yep, I know all about it. I would love to make friends here and have someone to support and to talk to. Want to be friends? (Virtual hug)
thank you and welcome to SS. I hope you find the friendship and support here for whatever decision you decide. Virtual hug back at ya. I am always here for anyone who needs me. I think you have to have more time here or posts, I'm fairly new here myself before I can message you. Once you can im pm whatever it's called feel free to message me.
 
Teal_Blue_Dreams

Teal_Blue_Dreams

Member
Joined
Sep 15, 2020
Messages
26
thank you and welcome to SS. I hope you find the friendship and support here for whatever decision you decide. Virtual hug back at ya. I am always here for anyone who needs me. I think you have to have more time here or posts, I'm fairly new here myself before I can message you. Once you can im pm whatever it's called feel free to message me.
Thank you for the warm welcome. How is your night going? (I'm in the US so maybe it's not night time where you are...)
 
nitroautnz

nitroautnz

Specialist
Joined
Sep 11, 2020
Messages
302
It's not my case, I feel very bod that when I see what people on this forum go through that I didnt. I have a supportive family and a friend that if I call them will help me right away. Even my ex that broke up with me, would come if I call her.
But it's not what I want, i dont want to live with myself anymore, I'm tired to try to do so because I'm worry about the pain I will cause
 
GoodPersonEffed

GoodPersonEffed

Brevity is my middle name, but my name was TL
Joined
Jan 11, 2020
Messages
5,769
I watched the video and I've looked at the website.

I'm wondering a couple of things:

1. She said that her son left his laptop open to SS. I'm curious as to why he did that, and which member he was, so I could see for myself what I'm asking here. Could he have done that because it explained his reasons for suicide? Did it show he wasn't alone when he died, and received support and compassion? I doubt his intentions were to say, "Shut down the site," but to try to communicate something to her, to convince her of something.

2. I wonder if she's considered what he would have done if this site didn't exist. He could have only found it if he was trying to find methods for suicide, so there was intent on his part. It's not like the site advertises or goes looking for fishing for unsuspecting members. Had he not found a site that gave him instructions for how to kill himself, what would he have found? When I myself was searching for a reliable, relatively painless method, there wasn't enough information for me to feel confident in an attempt, and I ended up finding this site. So I wonder if she's considered the possbilities of what would have happened had he not found it. For instance, he could have found information about hanging, and ended up not dead, but permanently brain damaged. Would she prefer that he'd attempted and been permanently harmed? Because there clearly was intention to attempt. And if something like that had happened, then who would she go after? Ultimately, the person who sought the information and committed the act is the one responsible. I understand that there are always extreme outlying circumstances, such as situations of coercion like the case mentioned in the OP (which had nothing to do with any website), but at least on the open forum, coercion doesn't happen here, and if it did, it would get nipped in the bud immediately.

I'm pretty sure she'll read this, she seems to keep up with the site, so I want to say, Kelli, I have respect for you. I've suffered losing someone to suicide, and it was not my own child or a family member. But I have compassion for your pain, and I don't at all disrespect you. It took me decades to see other sides of what my high school boyfriend may have been going through, I only saw what I experienced by his sudden loss, and what others experienced. Kelli, your son was an adult. He made a choice. And even if he wasn't an adult, he was still an autonomous human being who you could not control. If he didn't reach out to you for help, I'm so sorry that you've been left feeling impotent and victimized by the loss of your son. Again, it was not in your control. From my heart, I wish you healing, and I wish you the very best.

I hope that on your site you'll be more honest about the things you're linking and let people come to their own conclusions. On the evidence page, you set it up saying that children and people on the autism spectrum are being targeted, and here's the evidence, but the screenshots do not provide evidence of that, so in fact, you are targeting this site, not the site targeting others. You're using persuasive rhetoric, but the evidence doesn't match the claims, so what that says to me is that, while you may convince people who don't have critical thinking skills by handing them torches and pitchforks, you're also revealing a weak position by attempting to falsely manipulate opinons and support. If you want to put yourself out there as coming from a position of moral authority, then you need to act in moral and intellectual integrity. Your actions are your shelter and your refuge; actions of weak integrity create a weak shelter and refuge, especially when the time comes that you will take hits for standing up for what you believe in and choose to pursue.
 
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thrw_a_way1221221

thrw_a_way1221221

Angel of Choice - on borrowed time.
Joined
Aug 30, 2018
Messages
5,171
you can find more info about fixthe26.
First off, I will extend my condolences to the mother who lost her son. Now with that said, she couldn't be further from the truth and while @GoodPersonEffed have made some really good points, I will give my two cents. There are so many things that she said that is wrong.

How wrong is Kelli?
She claims that the site encourages, manipulates, and assists people in CTB'ing, but that is FAR from the truth. If anything, it's full of support from non-judgmental, compassionate, and honest people (not pro-lifers who project their views and values onto the person).

Also, she claimed that "incels" were a part of the site, and this is just 100% wrong. It seems like the word "incel" has been thrown around so much for anything that doesn't agree with the mainstream or status quo, so much that it loses it's meaning. Yes, she may be right about another site out there, that has nothing to do with this site and what this site stands for.

As for people with Aspergers and autism, especially people who have HFA (High Functioning Autism), are more than capable to make their own decisions and are one of the most logical, rational people out there, even more than your average NT (Neurotypical) normie.

As far as the rules are concerned, any user would need to be 18 years of age (the legal age to be considered an US adult) in order to register, so her claim about underaged users on here is unfounded. If anything, any prospective member trying to join not meeting the criteria (including being 18 years of age) will be rejected.

There are so many other points I could address and how far from the truth she is, but I feel like these are already more than enough to show how incorrect and ignorant she is about this site.
 
GoodPersonEffed

GoodPersonEffed

Brevity is my middle name, but my name was TL
Joined
Jan 11, 2020
Messages
5,769
I wonder at what point the mods are going to lock this thread, and why. Almost every thread like this that's been started since I've been a member has been locked. I just don't get it.
 
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S

SuchAStrangeWorld

Wise
Joined
Aug 11, 2020
Messages
252
Oh yes I agree.
Why should people suffer?

People die of terrible diseases. Why?
An animal wouldn't be allowed to suffer.

In the case of mental health, it is very nuanced.
If I'm honest even I don't know enough about mental health to be able to say if it can be cured or reversed, especially things like psychosis or schizophrenia.

All I can say is that I'd rather be living a good life than feel like I'm being driven to end it.
Then again we could all say that.
Even if the mental health issues could be cured or reversed, does that mean you don't have the right to die? I know there is a possibility that someday I could have more control over my mental illnesses if I put in tons of effort and do everything possible to make it happen. I've already been putting in way more effort than most people do. I still don't see this world as being worth it even if I got my mental health in a better place.
 
pannazidofski

pannazidofski

Veteran
Joined
Aug 31, 2020
Messages
124
They just want to feel good whit themselves trying to shut us down and thinking they gods and they have saved lifes when this is the only place i can talk about my feelings and you guys are the only friends if i can say that i have
Exactly, a bunch of fucks who want to censor information in the hopes of forcing others to be just as miserable as they are.
 
GoodPersonEffed

GoodPersonEffed

Brevity is my middle name, but my name was TL
Joined
Jan 11, 2020
Messages
5,769
Even if the mental health issues could be cured or reversed, does that mean you don't have the right to die? I know there is a possibility that someday I could have more control over my mental illnesses if I put in tons of effort and do everything possible to make it happen. I've already been putting in way more effort than most people do. I still don't see this world as being worth it even if I got my mental health in a better place.
Ima bring my rational Stoic buddies into this because they've guided me well in such considerations and I have much respect for their reasoning.

Mental illness isn't the only cause of suicide. That's something I keep seeing with folks opposed to this site, that it's "mentally ill people" advising other "mentally ill people," as if mental illness automatically turns off all rationality and autonomy, and therefore rights. There are rational reasons for suicide as well, such as poverty, homelessness, inability to escape from abuse, tyranny, and war -- and some of those come from my own logic, not just the Stoics. In fact, mental illness or "madness" was considered by the Stoics to be a rational reason for suicide if it caused one to not be able to act on their virtues; I've experienced that.

As Seneca said, the best thing life gave us is that there's only one way in, but many ways out, and as Montaigne said, it would be torture if we didn't have the option to escape life when we choose to. These were some seriously rational people. Stocism was based on rationality, virtue, and responsibilities to one's fellow humans, and Seneca was a statesman and well-known and -respected Stoic philosopher, not some wacked-out proponent of suicide. (Montaigne was a student of Stocisim and other philosophies.) The Stoics didn't take suicide lightly at all; they denounced foolish reasons for suicide, or emotion-based reasons. They weren't handing out suicide kits for joining the Stoic Club, but nor did they cling to emotion-based, non-rational reasons for clinging to life. They didn't romanticize, fetishize, or religiously elevate life as pro-lifers do, and I say this having been pro-life myself for decades, almost militantly so. I was as deaf and reasonless as pro-lifers say we are, which I now recognize in retrospect of my own self is a projection.

The Stoics knew this life is fucking hard, most people don't act on virtue, and really bad shit happens in the world every day. When it gets to be more than one's virtues or philosophy can overcome, there is a way out, and that way out is always there at some point whether one chooses it or not, however it is within one's reason and power to consider it and to pursue it if it is the most sane, rational choice.
 
Shades of Grey

Shades of Grey

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Jun 17, 2020
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Why aren't we required to provide proof of age?
I suspect that I speak for many of us when I say that I would not be willing to provide any identifying information to join a site like this.

I'm also not sure that requiring proof of age would be a significant deterrent to underage users (who I absolutely agree should not be welcome here). The powers that be have no way of verifying that we are who we say we are. A minor could easily upload a copy of someone else's ID, and they would be none the wiser. I feel like all it would ultimately do is provide a false sense of security, and I'd be very concerned about the potential implications if someone were to get their hands on that information.
 

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